The truth is we need a remastered XI or a follow up

[piipiipii]

Late to the thread but as someone who started with FFXIV and later began playing FFXI, FFXI does *not* need a remake / remaster / singleplayer version / whatever. FFXI is still there. It's not going anywhere, and personally I'd recommend starting now if ever. The game is fun. Really fun. It can be challenging, it can be confusing, but ultimately if the experience you want is everything served to you on a silver platter I'm not entirely sure why you're playing video games.

As has been repeatedly said, modern FFXI is a far cry from endless dune farming, and from the people I know who've gotten into the game late like me most of them never made it past the nation missions and into the expansions proper. Which is a shame, because all the expansions and scenarios post Zilart are really enjoyable, with stories that are mostly engaging and with characters that I like. In its current state it has a really tangible sense of character progression compared to FFXIV.

Don't get me wrong, I love FFXIV, but it's so... bland. Every experience is so fine-tuned that it's impossible to fail at something, or get lost, or solve any problem in a way other than how the game wants you. FFXI not holding your hand allows for an incredible amount of player choice and decision making in basically every aspect of the game, including buildcrafting, gearing, even just playing your job. There is no objectively correct way to do anything, and there is rarely even a preferred way the community does things.

You can't even save the goblins in Brayflox's Longstop without getting reported or yelled at. Two people can do the same thing in FFXI and end up having wildly different experiences.

[DPZ2]

Not sure why you say it would never happen. 1.0 used to have an option to sub to both.

Well, no, they didn't. What PlayOnline advertised was a 3-month reduction in the subscription for FFXI if you linked your PlayOnline account with your Final Fantasy XIV account. This was back in 2012. The FFXIV game shut down in 2012.

Details here: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/top...three%20months.

[Ath192]

Late to the thread but as someone who started with FFXIV and later began playing FFXI, FFXI does *not* need a remake / remaster / singleplayer version / whatever. FFXI is still there. It's not going anywhere, and personally I'd recommend starting now if ever. The game is fun. Really fun. It can be challenging, it can be confusing, but ultimately if the experience you want is everything served to you on a silver platter I'm not entirely sure why you're playing video games.

As has been repeatedly said, modern FFXI is a far cry from endless dune farming, and from the people I know who've gotten into the game late like me most of them never made it past the nation missions and into the expansions proper. Which is a shame, because all the expansions and scenarios post Zilart are really enjoyable, with stories that are mostly engaging and with characters that I like. In its current state it has a really tangible sense of character progression compared to FFXIV.

Don't get me wrong, I love FFXIV, but it's so... bland. Every experience is so fine-tuned that it's impossible to fail at something, or get lost, or solve any problem in a way other than how the game wants you. FFXI not holding your hand allows for an incredible amount of player choice and decision making in basically every aspect of the game, including buildcrafting, gearing, even just playing your job. There is no objectively correct way to do anything, and there is rarely even a preferred way the community does things.

You can't even save the goblins in Brayflox's Longstop without getting reported or yelled at. Two people can do the same thing in FFXI and end up having wildly different experiences.

It does, they are even spinning off employees from it because development is too archaic for it. The best thing that can happen is that a game like that or that one gets brought up to date. Otherwise it is a disservice to the people who are still working on it and stagnating their careers and it is a disservice to the enjoyers of the game because not only do they get punished with less content but also they get stuck with outdated graphics and engine.

[DiaDeem]

Do you like FF? I honestly don't know how to summarize the game really. Because you kinda can't. The gameplay in Retail with Trusts (Your NPC party) is more similar to oldschool CRPGs with a Final Fantasy skin than an old MMO. I feel like it's a mix of older Ultima games and Final Fantasy. It's not linear, it's both extremely wide, and deep - With that, it's also painful, confusing, cryptic, but extremely fun. I'd equate it to kind of a Souls-like in pain tolerance and reward. You need to pull your brain back to like 1993, not K-MMO era. Way further back than that.

Idk how, but it feels more like a pure mainline FF than XIV for me. But combat is roam / open world. So similar to XII.

I'm going to unlock Blue Mage right now, and it's a whole ass adventure just to get there. Then after I get BLU, will be a whole ass separate adventure getting spells.

Normal MMO NPC: "Can you go gather those 3 horse butts 10 feet away from me?"
XI NPC: "I need you to solve a rubik's cube, also I won't describe what a rubik's cube even is or how to solve it, and it's 4 zones away, and it's invisible.. (cutscene)"

There's so much STUFF, gear and jobs are unique. Places are interesting and scary. Nothing comes for free. Look both ways before you cross the street.

Oh, yeah and to answer your actual question - No, enemies are plentiful, zones are adventures with secrets, exp is very easy.

If you don't want an FF open world adventure, then it's def not for you.

Thanks for that, it actually painted a good picture of the game. It definitely sounds different from your everyday Ragnarok Online, and I can see the appeal somewhat. The issue I tend to have with cryptic questing, is that if I can't solve it in 10 - 20 mins, I just Google it up, or in the past I would have gone for a strategy guide, printed or GameFAQs I guess. Old School written guides and such. I don't think an MMO like this would be a bad idea inherently in today's market, so long as there can be a (somewhat) happy middle where you're not told outright what to do, but you're not also just.. left in the dark entirely. I don't think porting XI one-to-one would really be a good plan. I guess the next secret key for an MMO is finding a way to modernize that old school formula without going Theme Park.

Yeah, I can see the appeal. Thanks again.

[Boblawblah]

Thanks for that, it actually painted a good picture of the game. It definitely sounds different from your everyday Ragnarok Online, and I can see the appeal somewhat. The issue I tend to have with cryptic questing, is that if I can't solve it in 10 - 20 mins, I just Google it up, or in the past I would have gone for a strategy guide, printed or GameFAQs I guess. Old School written guides and such. I don't think an MMO like this would be a bad idea inherently in today's market, so long as there can be a (somewhat) happy middle where you're not told outright what to do, but you're not also just.. left in the dark entirely. I don't think porting XI one-to-one would really be a good plan. I guess the next secret key for an MMO is finding a way to modernize that old school formula without going Theme Park.

Yeah, I can see the appeal. Thanks again.

First of all, imo, FFXI is nothing like a mainline FF game AT ALL. Sure, it has some passing resemblance to XII I guess, but that's a huge stretch. FFXI is extremely outdated. Just making an account and logging in is an 'adventure'. The controls are awful, everything in the menu system is like a more janky version of the mendor in FFXIV. It's fun, but it feels like a game from the late 90s. They had to basically let people have super OP trust companions to carry you through the game because otherwise you'd be struggling to do anything, because there just isn't the community to support a lot of new players.

I would have given it more of a chance, but the high sub cost combined with the archaic mechanics just aren't worth it.

[R041]

First of all, imo, FFXI is nothing like a mainline FF game AT ALL. Sure, it has some passing resemblance to XII I guess, but that's a huge stretch. FFXI is extremely outdated. Just making an account and logging in is an 'adventure'. The controls are awful, everything in the menu system is like a more janky version of the mendor in FFXIV. It's fun, but it feels like a game from the late 90s. They had to basically let people have super OP trust companions to carry you through the game because otherwise you'd be struggling to do anything, because there just isn't the community to support a lot of new players.

I would have given it more of a chance, but the high sub cost combined with the archaic mechanics just aren't worth it.

There's no true 'Mainline' gameplay anymore. But it definitely feels, and sounds like a Final Fantasy game. A lot of XIV content came from XI.

I can see why people wouldn't enjoy it because of some outdated and confusing systems, but I'm comfortable digging a little bit to find fun. And what I found has been a true adventure with chocobos, moogles, and good lil FF stories.

Thanks for that, it actually painted a good picture of the game. It definitely sounds different from your everyday Ragnarok Online, and I can see the appeal somewhat. The issue I tend to have with cryptic questing, is that if I can't solve it in 10 - 20 mins, I just Google it up, or in the past I would have gone for a strategy guide, printed or GameFAQs I guess. Old School written guides and such. I don't think an MMO like this would be a bad idea inherently in today's market, so long as there can be a (somewhat) happy middle where you're not told outright what to do, but you're not also just.. left in the dark entirely. I don't think porting XI one-to-one would really be a good plan. I guess the next secret key for an MMO is finding a way to modernize that old school formula without going Theme Park.

Yeah, I can see the appeal. Thanks again.

Yeah I think it needs to be preserved as much as possible, or it'd just play like another XIV. It's tough, and it's not for everyone. The best thing I think could be done is modernize the UI and interaction system. Maybe more hints to the quests, and visualizing them a bit better. Like as an example I had to look for Chocobo tracks out in the woods, but when I found them they weren't even visible chocobo tracks, and I don't think I had any real way to figure it out. I tried for about an hour.

The WAY the quests are given to you, and how the stories are all pretty non-linear for the most part. Except for their own chains.. I really like that. I wish XIV did more random sets of quests that are somewhat meaningful. In XIV I kinda gobble up the quests like they're nothing, they just point me directly to the next NPC, gobble that up, go to the marker to click a thing, fly everywhere. Too quick, too easy. Not enough pain and engagement. lol

[TaleraRistain]

Thanks for that, it actually painted a good picture of the game. It definitely sounds different from your everyday Ragnarok Online, and I can see the appeal somewhat. The issue I tend to have with cryptic questing, is that if I can't solve it in 10 - 20 mins, I just Google it up, or in the past I would have gone for a strategy guide, printed or GameFAQs I guess. Old School written guides and such. I don't think an MMO like this would be a bad idea inherently in today's market, so long as there can be a (somewhat) happy middle where you're not told outright what to do, but you're not also just.. left in the dark entirely. I don't think porting XI one-to-one would really be a good plan. I guess the next secret key for an MMO is finding a way to modernize that old school formula without going Theme Park.

Yeah, I can see the appeal. Thanks again.

The reference to cryptic questing reminds me of standing in front of an NPC trying to get their quest back in EverQuest and just spitting out random phrases trying to find the right one

"Where is your cat?"
"Where cat?"
"What the cat?"
"Cat is where?"
"Why cat"
"How cat"
"Who cat"
"The quick brown cat jumps over the lazy dog"
"I am looking for the Cat"
"Give cat"

We had player run sites like Allakazam's to help eventually and the word salad needed for a trigger sometime really made me shake my head. But that was "The Vision" in EverQuest. "The Vision" is the BS we got about why we couldn't get changes and QoL updates.

[SenorPatty]

This remaster or new release should appeal to adventure/open world/progression enjoyers and XIV should probably stick to its pop culture theme park instanced rides.

They should share a sub. I think everyone would be much happier. They could even share assets but the style of these MMO's would appeal to different crowds and be popular in their respective fields. I'm sure of it.

Yeah but...

S.E loves money.

There's a thing I like to do in these "We need X" scenarios. I pretend I'm the company but also the player.

Company: "Well I already have 2 fully functional subs. Why should I give that up for the price of one?"

P: "If you remaster it, people will be attracted to your product and be attracted to a single sub fee and then you'll make more money."

C: " Disregarding your complete lack of risk assessment and income projection that I already have people for to do that in my business, you know, this isn't like remastering the single console games we made from a long time ago that we can spend minimal effort and resources at updating them. I'd be remastering an old style mmorpg, where its systems are literally a dying breed in the mmorpg genre where even its fans are not even at an 75% agreement rate on playing it in these times. And now you think this new generation of players are gonna be hooked on this?"

P: "Just remaster the systems so they fit todays standards."

C: "We already did that. It's a called FFXIV. Also, I'm still giving up double sub income. Appeal to my sense of money. Why should I lose out on two incomes?"

P: "I think you're underestimating how much people worldwide would try their hands at FFXI"

C: "I think you're overestimating how much people worldwide would try their hands at FFXI. Also, you still haven't explained how I could make more money than two subs."

P: "..."

C: "..."

P: "...show of good faith?"

C: "Get out."

[Boblawblah]

I could see them maybe going for a combo deal IF the combo was more expensive, but not as expensive as the two separate subs. Say like $20 USD for a premium sub or something that included both games. I doubt it though, we've seen SE just shut down a game completely instead of selling it for less.

[Shougun]

The reference to cryptic questing reminds me of standing in front of an NPC trying to get their quest back in EverQuest and just spitting out random phrases trying to find the right one

"Where is your cat?"
"Where cat?"
"What the cat?"
"Cat is where?"
"Why cat"
"How cat"
"Who cat"
"The quick brown cat jumps over the lazy dog"
"I am looking for the Cat"
"Give cat"

We had player run sites like Allakazam's to help eventually and the word salad needed for a trigger sometime really made me shake my head. But that was "The Vision" in EverQuest. "The Vision" is the BS we got about why we couldn't get changes and QoL updates.

Tangential, maybe off the wall- but given the huge leaps in AI... wonder how much of it could be used in games. . Using Bethesda's radiant ai as one example, but then yours above.. if the AI just 'understood' what you intended to mean. I mean it could be used superficially just to be like RIGHT YE THEY SPELLED IT WRONG BUT HERE IS YOUR REWARD DODO, LRN ENGRLESH!

Yet on the other hand, you could have some pretty dynamic dialog trained on a specific style. Welcome to some insanely unique experiences, and perhaps some wild unhealthy stories... "my husband left me for Yshtola, the AI convinced him that she is the dommy mommy". Save the children..

I would honestly be okay with a smarter chat system, but I do find having to say EXACTLY what the game wants annoying. Those case specific sentence quests and after I fail once I'm like "where is the freaking copy paste?".

Oh good, google stalking my thoughts- had this recommended on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wCjosz1vOA

It does, they are even spinning off employees from it because development is too archaic for it. The best thing that can happen is that a game like that or that one gets brought up to date. Otherwise it is a disservice to the people who are still working on it and stagnating their careers and it is a disservice to the enjoyers of the game because not only do they get punished with less content but also they get stuck with outdated graphics and engine.

Probably a nice kid pool for testing out ideas, especially since FFXI isn't really tightly wound for 1% off DPS lol, but I imagine learning the tools that will ONLY be used for that one game, ever, is probably not great. I'm sure there are some devs that have personal passion for the project, for them it's probably great if they could just stay on it forever, but for new people assigned to the project for no other reason than to be bodies on the ship.. I could actually see that being like "aw man.. this wont help me very much".