The truth is we need a remastered XI or a follow up

[R041]

100% this, just because things have some issues or disadvantages doesn't mean they can't be worked out, or even if they can't, that the product can't be successful because of them. Most examples provided here are from games that actually succeeded, despite their flaws.

This min maxing of game design is why they suck now a days.

Why was Elden ring a success? Quests weren't straight forward and didnt have neon waymarks where you were supposed to go all the time. You could even unknowingly kill someone that would mess up the entire quest and you were SoL. It was GG on that run through for sure. That was TERRIBLE game design by min-max standards but people were into it big time. It's almost as if players don't want to be coddled when a game advertises a dangerous and hostile environment.


Hand holding players sucks, its almost like we've entered the age of helicopter parenting by the devs inside video games. Like what's up with that?

Absolutely, for some people Elden Ring was an absolute disaster. Just as people experience Dark Souls. I'm getting a similar vibe with XI right now, where I did try it out for like a couple hours back on release day or something.. But Something today clicked. It's most likely the Trusts that changed everything to me and actually allows me to experience the whole world, and the many plotpoints / MSQ. But also the Trusts make it feel like an actual FF, because.. You get your own party. I like that people have their 75 era stuff, but I'm enjoying this as-is today.

Also I'm the kinda person that loves the way Souls/ER do 'quests' - When you don't give the player absolutely everything on a silver platter up front, it adds mystery and drives my curiosity. I enjoy a good mystery, and I want to think for myself. I don't want a visual novel to tell me how to feel, think, or react. I'm also very comfortable with the idea that I could have missed something - Where I know some people are just goblins that need to gobble everything up right away or they get FOMO for some reason.

I talk to some of these town NPCs even, and they go about their daily lives and struggles, something happens to the town and I'm just thinking "Oh shit, I hope the Bell bro is doing okay".. Similar to how I'd think in a mainline FF.

[Shougun]

100% this, just because things have some issues or disadvantages doesn't mean they can't be worked out, or even if they can't, that the product can't be successful because of them. Most examples provided here are from games that actually succeeded, despite their flaws.

This min maxing of game design is why they suck now a days.

Why was Elden ring a success? Quests weren't straight forward and didnt have neon waymarks where you were supposed to go all the time. You could even unknowingly kill someone that would mess up the entire quest and you were SoL. It was GG on that run through for sure. That was TERRIBLE game design by min-max standards but people were into it big time. It's almost as if players don't want to be coddled when a game advertises a dangerous and hostile environment.


Hand holding players sucks, its almost like we've entered the age of helicopter parenting by the devs inside video games. Like what's up with that?

I mean they did make minimap markers for some quests at release and further after, and imo the quest system of Elden Ring is bad.. just plain bad. At minimum we could have had a journal system like old cRPGs.

A lot of people, myself included, found quests impossible without using a third party guide. Now they are purposefully aiming for esoteric style presentation so they can't help that much without ruining the vibe.. but wouldn't have killed anyone to have a journal styled quest log (which doesn't need giant blinkers to get to location).

I don't think Elden Ring did well, for the vast majority of people, because quests were impossible to follow without divining rods.. more like a goty in spite of it.

[R041]

I mean they did make minimap markers for some quests at release and further after, and imo the quest system of Elden Ring is bad.. just plain bad. At minimum we could have had a journal system like old cRPGs.

A lot of people, myself included, found quests impossible without using a third party guide. Now they are purposefully aiming for esoteric style presentation so they can't help that much without ruining the vibe.. but wouldn't have killed anyone to have a journal styled quest log (which doesn't need giant blinkers to get to location).

Yeah, but tell that to a friend and boil the game down into how 'bad' the quests are. While they don't even understand the game isn't even about questing. It's the same idea here.

I can talk about all the bad in XIV, but that doesn't mean XIV is a bad game.

[Ath192]

Absolutely, for some people Elden Ring was an absolute disaster. Just as people experience Dark Souls. I'm getting a similar vibe with XI right now, where I did try it out for like a couple hours back on release day or something.. But Something today clicked. It's most likely the Trusts that changed everything to me and actually allows me to experience the whole world, and the many plotpoints / MSQ. But also the Trusts make it feel like an actual FF, because.. You get your own party. I like that people have their 75 era stuff, but I'm enjoying this as-is today.

I talk to some of these town NPCs even, and they go about their daily lives and struggles, something happens to the town and I'm just thinking "Oh shit, I hope the Bell bro is doing okay".. Similar to how I'd think in a mainline FF.

The 75 era stuff was like you needing to make friends and people were your trusts. So in large part thats why people are so fond of it. Imagine everything you are doing but having your linkshells (FCs at the time) being your trusts and coming out to help you, you helping them.

Because you always needed people it was incredibly tough right, but because you always needed people the bonds people developed in the game were equally meaningful. Thats actually one of the reasons people also can't go back to it too, imagine coming back to a house where you had a huge family and now its all empty, but you get some trusts. For those people it doesn't work. It's too sad. However, it's still a great house.

As you can see even with the trusts you get to experience the world and systems that are just as in depth. It's still a great game imo. There's just something that happened there years ago that has a left a shadow.

Likewise, the game just got outdated and people left it, but I can see plenty of people recommitting to an experience like that with an updated and modern MMO that prioritizes the same things XI did, with some improvements even. A game where people, cooperation, and exploration is as equally important as the story and combat.

XIV is mostly story and combat. There's no denying they threw everything else out the window.

[R041]

The 75 era stuff was like you needing to make friends and people were your trusts. So in large part thats why people are so fond of it. Imagine everything you are doing but having your linkshells (FCs at the time) being your trusts and coming out to help you, you helping them.

Because you always needed people it was incredibly tough right, but because you always needed people the bonds people developed in the game were equally meaningful. Thats actually one of the reasons people also can't go back to it too, imagine coming back to a house where you had a huge family and now its all empty, but you get some trusts. For those people it doesn't work. It's too sad. However, it's still a great house.

As you can see even with the trusts you get to experience the world and systems that are just as in depth. It's still a great game imo. There's just something that happened there years ago that has a left a shadow.

Likewise, the game just got outdated and people left it, but I can see plenty of people recommitting to an experience like that with an updated and modern MMO that prioritizes the same things XI did, with some improvements even. A game where people, cooperation, and exploration is as equally important as the story and combat.

XIV is mostly story and combat. There's no denying they threw everything else out the window.

I really like that people get to have both types of experiences today. I can understand why people would enjoy doing the slow meaningful group play, and the solo Trusts.

This is why I love Eureka and Bozja especially (Knowing they can be improved on). I've made more friends in Eureka than any content in XIV, within a MUCH shorter time period too.

[Ath192]

I really like that people get to have both types of experiences today. I can understand why people would enjoy doing the slow meaningful group play, and the solo Trusts.

This is why I love Eureka and Bozja especially. I've made more friends in Eureka than any content in XIV, within a MUCH shorter time period too.

Yeah, thats my biggest gripe with modern MMO design. It's like they went back to the kitchen and asked themselves? "Okay what is the best part of this and how can we give people just that and more of it" Without realizing that the side dishes and seasonings we just as important as the main ingredient.

As a consequence, you get a huge chunk of the main stuff but it's just.... not better than what it would've been with all the other elements.

[Akibaws]

Not sure why you say it would never happen. 1.0 used to have an option to sub to both.

[DiaDeem]

I'm gonna need a tl;dr on XI because if it's anything like the old school Korean MMOs I used to play where you'd "explore" gigantic empty maps with 3 enemies that respawned every 20 mins and gave 2xp that you'd farm for 9 hours for a single level that you'd then lose to an accidental death, then that's a hard no for me. I'm already tired of modern open worlds as is, but I never played XI so I don't know if that's what the game was.

[Payotz]

They should share a sub.

Honestly I'd just want them to share a sub. If Blizzard can do it with WoW Classic and Retail, why can't they do it for 11?
It won't happen but I wish they'd actually work on Steam Deck support for it too.

[R041]

I'm gonna need a tl;dr on XI because if it's anything like the old school Korean MMOs I used to play where you'd "explore" gigantic empty maps with 3 enemies that respawned every 20 mins and gave 2xp that you'd farm for 9 hours for a single level that you'd then lose to an accidental death, then that's a hard no for me. I'm already tired of modern open worlds as is, but I never played XI so I don't know if that's what the game was.

Do you like FF? I honestly don't know how to summarize the game really. Because you kinda can't. The gameplay in Retail with Trusts (Your NPC party) is more similar to oldschool CRPGs with a Final Fantasy skin than an old MMO. I feel like it's a mix of older Ultima games and Final Fantasy. It's not linear, it's both extremely wide, and deep - With that, it's also painful, confusing, cryptic, but extremely fun. I'd equate it to kind of a Souls-like in pain tolerance and reward. You need to pull your brain back to like 1993, not K-MMO era. Way further back than that.

Idk how, but it feels more like a pure mainline FF than XIV for me. But combat is roam / open world. So similar to XII.

I'm going to unlock Blue Mage right now, and it's a whole ass adventure just to get there. Then after I get BLU, will be a whole ass separate adventure getting spells.

Normal MMO NPC: "Can you go gather those 3 horse butts 10 feet away from me?"
XI NPC: "I need you to solve a rubik's cube, also I won't describe what a rubik's cube even is or how to solve it, and it's 4 zones away, and it's invisible.. (cutscene)"

There's so much STUFF, gear and jobs are unique. Places are interesting and scary. Nothing comes for free. Look both ways before you cross the street.

Oh, yeah and to answer your actual question - No, enemies are plentiful, zones are adventures with secrets, exp is very easy.

If you don't want an FF open world adventure, then it's def not for you.