Final Fantasy 14's grinds feel horrible to midcore players

[SturmChurro]

Huge draw of Lost Ark was the combat gameplay. Even in dailies you farm for a month it feels fun.

I tried, I really did, but that game is too much. It became too much for the majority of the playerbase too. I just couldn't do it, plus after taking a break, I had a huge amount I had to catch up on. I appreciate that it is a great PvE game, and has well designed fights, but the entire game is essentially just for high-end PvErs now. You can't really be casual or midcore, I feel, in the long run. UNLESS you pay to keep up. You either live your life in the game, or you pay. Nobody was even doing any of the horizontal content anymore, and expected people to pay to complete their weekly raids. It was awful. It's too bad, because that game has probably the best aRPG combat IMO, and a lot of other positives.

[Shougun]

Huge draw of Lost Ark was the combat gameplay. Even in dailies you farm for a month it feels fun.

Never liked the visuals but I felt GW2 combat was pretty fun feeling, and it looks like, you tell me as I've not played it yet, that Lost Ark is akin to a higher octane GW2 situation (improved). Absolute nightmare to do something so big for an existing MMO but I do hope for more action oriented for the next one, which I think will help keep FFXIV going at the same time.

I imagine, with the finest weed in the southfarthing, that FFXVI might even be the testing grounds for those systems- like FFXII was (slightly) for FFXIV.

To be honest I stayed away from Lost Ark because Korean MMOs are, stereotypically, ABSOLUTELY LEGENDARY GODS of grind, and I am a big pansy who wants to play about 2 - 4 hours weekdays tops, and maybe a little extra on the weekends, and still 'get stuff done' lol.

[SturmChurro]

To be honest I stayed away from Lost Ark because Korean MMOs are, stereotypically, ABSOLUTELY LEGENDARY GODS of grind, and I am a big pansy who wants to play about 2 - 4 hours weekdays tops, and maybe a little extra on the weekends, and still 'get stuff done' lol.

The combat is great in Lost Ark, the problem is the monotony. Lost Ark at launch was fantastic, in my opinion. There was a good amount of collection, and horizontal casual content to go out and do. Unfortunately, that isn't really the game anymore.

The grind in that game, entails - and Skiros can correct me if I am wrong - pretty much, having to go on 6 characters doing the same things, over, and over, and over. Just to keep up to date on your main character. You funnel stuff to your main, you keep your alts good enough to participate, but that is about it. On top of that, the legion raids are quite.. difficult. You can't really take breaks, because if you take a break you are left behind, and if you get left behind, parties won't accept you, unless you pay them to clear the raid for you.

Don't get me wrong, it makes sense why people gatekeep. Someone not performing adequately can really set a group back - this is something just inherent with the design. The raids are great for people who are into that, unfortunately this focus, has cost the game the majority of it's playerbase in the west, and people like me who are more mid-core (when I want to be), and casual.

[Shougun]

The combat is great in Lost Ark, the problem is the monotony. Lost Ark at launch was fantastic, in my opinion. There was a good amount of collection, and horizontal casual content to go out and do. Unfortunately, that isn't really the game anymore.

The grind in that game, entails - and Skiros can correct me if I am wrong - pretty much, having to go on 6 characters doing the same things, over, and over, and over. Just to keep up to date on your main character. You funnel stuff to your main, you keep your alts good enough to participate, but that is about it. On top of that, the legion raids are quite.. difficult. Don't get me wrong, it makes sense why people gatekeep. Someone not performing adequately can really set a group back - this is something just inherent with the design. The raids are great for people who are into that, unfortunately this has cost the game the majority of it's playerbase, and people who are more mid-core (when I want to be), and casual like me.

Sounds like a fun short term experience and then awful, at least from reading lol. Coming from a casual to mid-core at best player perspective, by strong desire and choice.

I used to be hardcore, I just don't mesh with it anymore... way too much effort and stress to do the same thing again and again and again and again when I can enjoy it for a nice palate cleanser to my day. Elden Ring type stuff is quite fun but that's solo, so I can rely on me and get it done when I've 'got gud'- unlike the multiplayer stuff where unless you have a set crew you run the high chance of failure without gains and on a limited schedule that's just me noping out on why I'd do that to myself. That said I do actively consider I'm not the only player and read people's wishes from different angles lol.. just cause it's not my style doesn't mean its wrong.

[SturmChurro]

Sounds like a fun short term experience and then awful, at least from reading lol. Coming from a casual to mid-core at best player perspective, by strong desire and choice.

I used to be hardcore, I just don't mesh with it anymore... way too much effort and stress to do the same thing again and again and again and again when I can enjoy it for a nice palate cleanser to my day. Elden Ring type stuff is quite fun but that's solo, so I can rely on me and get it done when I've 'got gud'- unlike the multiplayer stuff where unless you have a set crew you run the high chance of failure without gains and on a limited schedule that's just me noping out on why I'd do that to myself. That said I do actively consider I'm not the only player and read people's wishes from different angles lol.. just cause it's not my style doesn't mean its wrong.

At this point.. not really. Everyone at launch was completing their stuff, their horizontal content. You could find groups for events at any time of day. People were out doing stuff. If you tried to go out and do your islands now: it's dead. You won't have anybody to help you. For example, if you want to do Spida island, you probably won't have anybody there to help you break the egg, meaning you cannot get it done. Low level world bosses, you'll have to come back later and solo them, or whatever, because there is no way in heck you are getting them done anymore, since nobody is doing them.

There is no real good short term, or frankly, long term experience, anymore unless you are either a big high-end PvEr interested in these kind of grinds, or you are a whale.. that just pays to skip it all and go straight to the raids. I suppose you'd still have to be a high-end PvEr though.

How does this circle back to FFXIV? How not to do a grind.

[CelestiCer]

Huge draw of Lost Ark was the combat gameplay. Even in dailies you farm for a month it feels fun.

Can't even mention Lost Ark because I never played it.

To point out a good example of Fun Grinds in other games? For me... Grand Fantasia / Ragnarok / Black Desert / Dragonica / Trickster / Tree of Savior / Revelation. I haven't played Guildwars 2 / Runescape / Diablo but probably a good reason why player's like those for it's grinding aspect. Each of these games and more have flaws, but they did something right regarding a Grind.

FFXIV has the potential to make Grinds... not feel as egregiously as a slot machine, the luck feels fair, a sense of peril/danger/difficulty to overcome for excitement, the rewards are worth doing, and it's all not reliant on P2W, but your Skills to obtain and do the content with flavorful Jobs.

FFXIV does not need to become a Korean-Grind-Style MMO btw nor exactly copy any of them. But when I look at FFXIV's grind and content?

• Same copy pasted Fates grinding formats...
• Same rehashed Bosses and Mobs from before...
• Same AoE Circle/Cone/Donut I have to dodge...
• Same Raidwide at the start of every fight...
• Same Dungeon structure...

Well if everything is mostly copy-pasted and rehashed formats? FFXIV's Job gameplay better be flavorful. Every button satisfying to press and every hit fun to land. But Square has been homogenizing every Job... " Making every boring grind? that much more boring ".

Add Rewards that are rehashed, and there's no incentive to do them. Square can do way better, we all know they can do better... they just won't.

[hunkygladiator]

I tried, I really did, but that game is too much. It became too much for the majority of the playerbase too. I just couldn't do it, plus after taking a break, I had a huge amount I had to catch up on. I appreciate that it is a great PvE game, and has well designed fights, but the entire game is essentially just for high-end PvErs now. You can't really be casual or midcore, I feel, in the long run. UNLESS you pay to keep up. You either live your life in the game, or you pay. Nobody was even doing any of the horizontal content anymore, and expected people to pay to complete their weekly raids. It was awful. It's too bad, because that game has probably the best aRPG combat IMO, and a lot of other positives.

Yeah it's one of the best combat in the genre, probably better than Diablo. I found the horizontal content fun too.

I don't mind the grind personally but the high-end raids are too annoying to deal with on multiple alts every week. I think I cleared hell Valtan and Kakul and stopped playing not because of the grind but because the pressure is too high and while I enjoyed spreadsheeting my alts to plan optimal grind I was done when I realized I have to do Kakul 6 times a week, some of it in PF. And another reason is that the raids just aren't polished enough. Kakul has some seriously aggravating hitboxes that isn't fun to deal with.

[hunkygladiator]

At this point.. not really. Everyone at launch was completing their stuff, their horizontal content. You could find groups for events at any time of day. People were out doing stuff. If you tried to go out and do your islands now: it's dead. You won't have anybody to help you. For example, if you want to do Spida island, you probably won't have anybody there to help you break the egg, meaning you cannot get it done. Low level world bosses, you'll have to come back later and solo them, or whatever, because there is no way in heck you are getting them done anymore, since nobody is doing them.

There is no real good short term, or frankly, long term experience, anymore unless you are either a big high-end PvEr interested in these kind of grinds, or you are a whale.. that just pays to skip it all and go straight to the raids. I suppose you'd still have to be a high-end PvEr though.

How does this circle back to FFXIV? How not to do a grind.

But those island grinds were fun, no? The problem isn't the actual content, it's the incentive. If FF14 did something similar and encouraged people who finished it to do it again with Khloe etc. there wouldn't be an issue.

[Ransu]

Huge draw of Lost Ark was the combat gameplay. Even in dailies you farm for a month it feels fun.

Spending a month farming dailies doesn't sound like fun to me.

[hunkygladiator]

Spending a month farming dailies doesn't sound like fun to me.

That's only because you've been conditioned to WoW/FF14's lackluster combat.