Are there any plans to fix the 'Haurchefant' localization?

[rainichan]

Just fyi, if you write up a big post, copy most of it and then edit, you can bypass the 3k word limit.

I'm sorry, but this is wrong. ...

Japanese localization from EN to JP is the exact same process: take the source, make it marketable to the JP market. Cultural sensitivity exists in all markets, not just the EN market. Most localizations also employ transliterations, which is "make something we can't translate over well enough into something as close as possible to stay accurate." As I said, some of what they do in the EN version I would like them to not do, in overly technical explanations for something that is easier to understand in other languages because they feel the need to stay with ye olde English with some things or overuse of words ("aplomb" had my particular ire for all of 6.0, please use a different word, there are so many to get your point across) but if I'm getting the same experience overall, a slight misstep is not going to make me be miles off from where the end destination is.

I don't think equating a form of harassment to a character in a video game is at all an appropriate comparison... I can understand the discomfort people feel about this, but I guarantee you that it's nowhere close to this. I don't doubt that cases exist, but changing the story to accommodate for them is something that.
And even then, taking Haurchefant's interactions and calling it 'harassment' is something I can't understand...
I don't think such standards need to be applied to fictional characters in such a way, with the same reverence we would apply to them in real-life. I'm perfectly capable of taking the threat of being murdered or assaulted seriously even after all of the media which depicts, if not glorifies, such things, same with media which or glorifies sexual things. Japanese users don't seem to take issue with it either, even rebelling at the thought of it having an effect on behavior. Why can't Westerners see it the same way? I don't think it needs to be regarded the same way as it does in real-life, context matters and the same couldn't be said about this.

My overall take is, if it were genuinely better for it to not exist, then it should be that way for the game as a whole, not only in specific regions. A book shouldn't have chapters removed just so it can be published in a different country. A game shouldn't have content be cut or revised for the same reason either.

I'm just going to quote all of this because it's a lot, and you're still not quite grasping why people are finding it a problem, and are instead brushing it off.

Here is mention of chikan, or sexual harassment on trains from the beginning of this year, something even more recent from earlier this month about chikan, and another on how often it happens - can't find a publish date, which is frustrating, but if a news article from this month is mentioning a push to end it or make people feel comfortable on reporting it, it's still a valid resource at this point, which is incredibly sad. Japan's take of "if we don't see it, it's not happening' isn't really a great take to defend, either, just saying, especially when more and more of the younger generations are going "this isn't great". They even recently OK'd a bill to pass in which makes the listed even more illegal than before for things like upskirting or whatnot... things that were common tropes in anime for the "loveable pervert" trope, and for good measure, the sharp rise of it as reported earlier in the year. "That's a small number" but as the other articles say, a lot of people don't report it - sounds quite familiar, as it's the same in the US. Not being taken seriously, nothing being done about it, or the least amount of things done about it is what keeps people (both men and women) from reporting a rape or other sexual assault. For people who have had this happen to them, someone being that forward can bring back traumatic memories, whether you believe it or not, because it can be how it happened to them, or similar enough that it makes them uncomfortable.

Cultures are always going to be different, yes, and that's fine. I understand JP culture because I've been following it and immersed in it since before I was a teenager. I also see where we differ on things, and just because one side grew up going "hm, this is okay to do" (and now it's not being as okay, as evidenced as above) doesn't mean the other side will have to embrace it and like it, especially as times change and therefore change what is happening in the world. It's changing in Japan now too, 10 years ago is a wildly different time than now, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had done this now, the other languages would have been closer to the NA version instead.

And for the record... no lol
Just no.

I don't need to insult people to prove my point, at least when it's not warranted (i.e. being insulted first).

I pointed out multiple times where there was no provocation involved already where you did in my previous post, which in turn made people do the same back:

Your insistence that it's people getting "upset" over things that don't matter is not helping your case either, because they may not matter TO YOU but they obviously matter to those that see a problem. You won't get people warming up to your stance if you constantly insult them either, despite crying that people are insulting you, for instance saying that they're all puritanical Westerners who don't understand the "finer nuances" of Japanese culture, and that the people who weren't exactly excited about how the JP version should "seek therapy" if they felt excessively creeped out by him:

And for your own words:

[quote]I've seen people genuinely react with vigor at the way he was written in the JP version, like with utmost disgust like they were being assaulted.

To those people I suggest therapy.[quote]

I really don't see what there is to be so uncomfortable over. Yeah he's a 'creep' but it's a character in a video game and his original inception actually serves a valid purpose. His interactions are genuinely funny and the fact that people would rather see that revised because it would be inconvenient to 'toughen up' in favor of compromising the artistic and literary integrity of the product, thereby contributing to a culture of accommodating insecurity disguised as socio-cultural apologetics.

I genuinely think that the majority of players wouldn't feel so bothered by it, or they would overlook it along with all the other 'problematic' aspects of a Japanese product, and for those who are made uncomfortable by it, what's the harm? I think challenging their insecurities in the context of fiction is a good thing. It's how I learned to treat art as art and not as something that has to reflect real-life values. Fantasy is harmless.

Within the western anime community, there exists people with colonial mentalities who genuinely believe that such tropes, plots, characters, etc. constitute some degree of harm and base this harm on the discomfort they feel when exposed to it, but lack the self-awareness and introspection skills to recognize whether that discomfort constitutes 'harm'.

I don't see how being made to feel uncomfortable by Haurchefant's 'advances' should be taken any more seriously than someone disturbed by anything else in this game.

It might not be on par with "haha weeb" or namecalling, but that's still fairly insulting to those who did come back with well thought out responses to you but disagreed. I said what I said because with others that have said similarly, they've been called "soft" or "woke" when they're likely talking from experience.

I think your overall point about being sensitive over it feeling like harassment is probably the most valid response, but still falls short of the broader content being mere fiction, coupled with the intentions of the creators being made clear of being a joke, and I stand by my previous statements about people 'growing a spine'. I think going out of their way to accommodate that sensitivity and discomfort is the wrong approach to take if it's the 'true vision' of the product, because in later years or in other products, they're going to go with the characterization of the JP script because that's the true version. Even the LINE Messenger icons of Haurchefant are representative of his Japanese characterization.

Just because it is fiction does not mean people can or will divorce it from real life easily, especially when they've had something similar or identical happen to them. I'm not sure how else I can really say that without going full 2004 sparkletext. Some things are easy, some things are not. When recent statistics are saying 1 in 6 women have experienced attempted or a completed sexual assault... that's a lot of women. Imagine if all of them who have experienced some degree of it came forward, that number would likely be a lot smaller. 1 in 6 is still incredibly small of a number. That would also apply to the users of this forum, who should not have to come right out and say "yeah I was raped and JP Haurchefant reminds me of that and that's why I'm uncomfortable," just saying "no it would make me uncomfortable" should be more than enough.

We also don't get those LINE stickers here, because who in the US uses LINE? It's mainly Asia who uses it. Yes, we get the rips from people who use it in the US or by people who use it to connect to their family members in Asia, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to Asia as a whole who use it as their main messaging app.

I named off 4Kids because they're a textbook case of localization that a lot of people seem to forget about, and yes, they have. We literally watched entire anime and manga be butchered by Crunchyroll. I remember Dragon Maid, I literally cancelled my CR sub because of all of their craziness.

The only censorship and changes I'm finding in any search is for the Chinese version of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. I'm not seeing any instance of what you're talking about happening in the Crunchyroll version of the anime, and seeing that we have an uncensored sub on Crunchy. It's wholly possible I missed something in going back some to see what may have been changed, but if you have sources beyond "just trust me bro" that'd be great.

As for a lot of 4kids-ification of anime in general, I'm old enough to remember when anime was seen as demonic or adult-only. ...then again I remember when it was "it's for kids lol" so the debate has always been there. Having people see it as some horrible demonic thing in the 90s was certainly something, same with the satanic scare of Dungeons and Dragons. It's less so now, and so anime dubs even for kids have changed to be closer to their counterparts, but yes, I was there, Gandalf, I was there 3000 years ago when Haruka and Michiru were cousins in the Sailor Moon S dub. Times have changed and they're very obviously not in the newer dub from Viz, but before it would not have been viable for them to air it without heavy censorship. It sucks, but that's how it goes.

As for the game 'being Japanese', it's about the title (if not franchise) as a whole being a product of Japanese writers and artists, shaped by the culture which they existed in, their liberal use of a variety of Western fantasy and mythological characters, tropes, etc. The game itself has made its Japanese character evident even beyond that, like the celebrating of Japanese holidays, and partnering with Japanese properties to do cross-over events with, etc.

Banri Oda, the main world and lore builder for the series, looks outside his Japanese roots to create correct environments for every area in FFXIV, he's stated repeatedly on record that he loves learning about other cultures and reading different kinds of books that give him inspiration for everything he's created for FFXIV. The only true Japanese holiday that's celebrated in XIV is the way New Year is celebrated as more of a Lunar New Year, and Little Ladies Day which is just Children's Day. Halloween, Christmas, Valentines are pretty obvious Western holidays that are popular in Japan. Summer is debatable as there are many holidays in a lot of cultures that happen during what we'd see as the Summer months. The only collabs that XIV has done are within their own franchises - FFXI, Dragon Quest, FFXIII, and FFXV. All of them take place in fantasy worlds that are not confined to Japan, and the only real argument that you can get to in that is "FFXI's Summer event is distinctly Japan", but the rest really aren't, and XIV is pretty similar to their holiday quests.

With Western references and jokes, I..genuinely don't like it. I begrudgingly tolerate it because it's a joke in the JP version as well, and I assume that that's fine, though I'd prefer to just see the JP version. I personally just think the 'Channel Awesome' approach of constantly inserting jokes or references to things that exist in the broader culture is a lame approach, because you can't always guarantee that it'll amuse more than it annoys, but it also kills opportunity for something actually intriguing or conducive to immersed engagement, which it probably won't be because most references aren't written with that dual-purpose in mind for the sake of those who don't get it or pick up on that it's a reference.
That point stands even with respect to JP-centric jokes or references, but I'd still like to see those translated over.

And that's fine! You have a preference, and I won't say you're wrong for having it. I play a lot of games in Japanese because I like their voices most of the time more than the dub version, but dubs have come a long way so I don't mind them as much anymore; it's the same with anime. Having silly pop culture references don't really bother me, and to me just feels like the localization team are appealing to my crappost tendencies, which I personally enjoy, but I know it's not for everyone - really, it just feels like a bunch of Pop Team Epic to me anyway. However having a lot of things not be enjoyable for a broader audience by having jokes we don't get doesn't really make people want to learn or understand, it just makes them not want to play a game that does that and doesn't think that there are other cultures outside of their own. Eventually the pop culture references will fall out of favour, as a lot of things do, and they'll change their approach since that's an important part of localization and transliteration is understanding the base of people you're trying to cater to. We do still get a huge amount of visual puns, because that's something that is enjoyed pretty globally, but unfortunately the word pun approach would not work, and likely turn more people off to things than draw in.

The balance line of "appealing to a larger audience" or "appealing to a smaller audience" will always go into the "larger" for more money made.