A summary of healer issues

[ForteNightshade]

Sure I could have let him die, the tank was horrible and didn't deserve a carry through the dungeon. But wouldn't that be griefing? Even more so than using Cure 1?

No, actually. They weren't doing their job by not popping cooldowns. So while you can try patching up their mistake, the fault would still be theirs as you wouldn't have been in such a scenario if they knew the basics of tanking. Dusk Vigil is level 51. There is no excuse to not know how cooldowns work by that point.

Nevertheless, Cure I wasn't didn't come in as much clutch as you're giving it credit. Benediction and Cure II spam would have been more efficient due to the massive difference in potency. Three casts of Cure I will have only saved you .5 seconds compared to two casts of Cure II while healing for less (1,500 vs. 1,600), and costing 200 more MP to boot. In otherwards, it accomplished nothing. None of this is to criticize you but rather highlight just how useless Cure I is. The only very minute niche it has would be if someone would die within the .5 seconds between casting it over any other heal. Those scenarios are so seldom it isn't worth the hotbar space.

[Tint]

Nevertheless, Cure I wasn't didn't come in as much clutch as you're giving it credit. Benediction and Cure II spam would have been more efficient due to the massive difference in potency. Three casts of Cure I will have only saved you .5 seconds compared to two casts of Cure II while healing for less (1,500 vs. 1,600), and costing 200 more MP to boot. In otherwards, it accomplished nothing. None of this is to criticize you but rather highlight just how useless Cure I is. The only very minute niche it has would be if someone would die within the .5 seconds between casting it over any other heal. Those scenarios are so seldom it isn't worth the hotbar space.

It accomplished that I was not running out of mana.

Three casts of Cure 1 cost 1200 mp while two casts of Cure 2 cost 2000 mp. So I saved 800 mp and lost only 100 potency of healing. On top of that I made use of the infamous free cure procc.

Without Cure 1 I would have run dry, would not be able to heal the tank anymore and we would have wiped.

[ForteNightshade]

It accomplished that I was not running out of mana.

Three casts of Cure 1 cost 1200 mp while two casts of Cure 2 cost 2000 mp. So I saved 800 mp and lost only 100 potency of healing. On top of that I made use of the infamous free cure procc.

Without Cure 1 I would have run dry, would not be able to heal the tank anymore and we would have wiped.

I miscalculated the MP (read potencies twice instead) but there is no chance you're running out of MP in any dungeon provided you're keeping Lucid Dreaming up. Even at near zero Piety, I still don't run out. And yes, I've had to spam Cure II. Trash simply doesn't live long enough in lower level content nowadays you'd ever bottom out.

[Silver-Strider]

I miscalculated the MP (read potencies twice instead) but there is no chance you're running out of MP in any dungeon provided you're keeping Lucid Dreaming up. Even at near zero Piety, I still don't run out. And yes, I've had to spam Cure II. Trash simply doesn't live long enough in lower level content nowadays you'd ever bottom out.

The only time I imagine MP would be an issue in ARR would be in synched Extremes, Coils or particularly awful WoD runs. While those are rare occurrences nowadays, free trial and new players might be more inclined to do those bits of content and in turn might run into those issues. However, I'd argue that there are better ways to address sustain than keep an outdated skill like Cure 1 any longer.

Everyone and their mother seems to agree on lowering the level of Afflatus Spells down to level 50 content, which would absolutely help with sustain during that time.
I've suggested in the past as well to rework skills like Fluid Aura, Protect, Divine Seal and Stoneskin to be low level versions of Assize, Aqua Veil, Temperance and Divine Benison respectively that would also address sustain issues on WHM.
Evening just lowering the cost of Cure 2 would suffice honestly.

Anything is better than keeping Cure 1 around honestly.

[Shurrikhan]

Anything is better than keeping Cure 1 around honestly.

I'd have to disagree. Anything's better than a context in which having skills meant to actually interact with MP as a system (beyond merely hitting a bloat CD on CD) would be an utter waste (because of MP being left a non-mechanic divorced from the bulk of our actual healing throughput [oGCDs]).

I'd rather have a worthwhile Cure I, for instance, than the next Panhaima equivalent or other oGCD bloat skill that takes us yet further away from our cumulative kit's relevance.



Better that what mechanics we allege should actually exist and we occasionally have to feature the brakes because of that than that we just ride along on pretense, disjointed kits, and skills that exist only to unmake whatever nuance a particular mechanic would otherwise introduce if not for that matched 'solution' skill.

[Silver-Strider]

I'd rather have a worthwhile Cure I, for instance, than the next Panhaima equivalent or other oGCD bloat skill that takes us yet further away from our cumulative kit's relevance.

Better that what mechanics we allege should actually exist and we occasionally have to feature the brakes because of that than that we just ride along on pretense, disjointed kits, and skills that exist only to unmake whatever nuance a particular mechanic would otherwise introduce if not for that matched 'solution' skill.

We've been waiting for Healer toolkits to be given any sort of relevance for years now but have yet to get anything substantial.
If MP management is ever going to be relevant again to a point that Cure 1 becomes the go to healing spell, then a significant change to Healer's toolkits would need to be made, such as cutting back on our oGCDs tool, giving them an MP cost or removing sustain tools like Lucid Dreaming from the game, all of which are about as likely as humanity achieving World Peace (as sad as that is).

Is it possible to salvage Cure 1 equivalent spells to be relevant again? Sure but it's also very unlikely given the Devs design philosophy.

[Shurrikhan]

If MP management is ever going to be relevant again to a point that Cure 1 becomes the go to healing spell, then a significant change to Healer's toolkits would need to be made, such as cutting back on our oGCDs tool, giving them an MP cost or removing sustain tools like Lucid Dreaming from the game, all of which are about as likely as humanity achieving World Peace (as sad as that is).

Of course. But those changes would benefit healers regardless.

Lucid Dreaming is one RNG means of screwing yourself over away from pure bloat (so... somehow even worse).

The more of our healing is free of both uptime and resource costs, the less swing we have between our damage and healing and the lower ceiling we can have on either, ultimately reducing agency. Not all abilities need to be free of MP costs. Nor do we need so many abilities altogether, especially those with so long of cooldowns or niche of functionality that they serve only singular "mechanic-solving" uses.

And none of that is only "as likely as humanity achieving World Peace."

Though we've accidentally trimmed depth and functionality at times, we have also trimmed real bloat, like Diversion, Goad, and Invigorate. We already have abilities with MP costs. None of those changes would be novel to the game.

[Shurrikhan]

Three casts of Cure I will have only saved you .5 seconds compared to two casts of Cure II while healing for less (1,500 vs. 1,600), and costing 200 more MP to boot.

It's worse for Cure I than that.

Cure I and Cure II each take up the exact same amount of uptime, as all sub-GCD spells do: They consume... a GCD each.

A cast-time lower than the GCD only allows for more movement, not more uptime.

Pre-SpS, 3 Cure I casts will take 7.5 seconds. 2 Cure II casts will take 5 seconds. (Rather than 4.5s vs. 4s.)

Though I'm also not sure where these MP values are coming from. Cure I costs 400 MP each, while Cure II costs 1000 each. So it'd still be 800 less MP for 3 C1s than 2 C2s.

[Remolia]

A cast-time lower than the GCD only allows for more movement, not more uptime. [/SIZE]

And 0.5 second faster application time! Since FFXIV servers are laggy, it means something.

[Shurrikhan]

And 0.5 second faster application time! Since FFXIV servers are laggy, it means something.

Sure, if they're fewer than 2 seconds from being killed specifically due to a difference of a mere 500 potency's healing in health, and somehow not, say, 2+ seconds from being killed from the difference of 800 potency of healing.

...And assuming you haven't a single oGCD heal left, nor any Lilies that'd also instead make that heal instant.

There's some (though increasingly little as levels increase and any spot-healing itself gets more and more dull in terms of actual spells cast) application, but it's exceedingly rare.

Moreover, it often depends on prior mistakes on the healer's part, too, like not simply having used a Medica II instead of a non-urgent Cure II or using 3 Cure Is instead of 2 Cure IIs and therefore otherwise lacking the time to get a further person back to a survivable level of HP.

99% of the time, the sole benefit of Cure I is MP efficiency, but also... 99% of the time, MP is a non-mechanic outside of dying just after having hit Lucid Dreaming.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I'd rather retain Cure I or an otherwise more efficiency-minded option than have an umpteenth oGCD heal; we have too many of the latter as is. It's just that the context does not allow for Cure I to be a button well spent. AoE heals are too strong, MP is basically irrelevant, and too much of healer's offense is locked up in their filler attack to sufficiently reduce the opportunity cost of offensive GCDs lost to using more MP-efficient heals.

If you want Cure I and its equivalents to be of real use, rather than just a gimmick to play with at mild cost to your team, each healer's overall kit needs adjustment. Luckily, those are probably adjustments healers would benefit from regardless of whether they retain a less-bursty, MP-efficient spell among their kits.