Dps jobs share at least 90% of their abilities

[Mikey_R]

It's a feedback forum so the actual game designers have an idea of what the community wants. I don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that when a rocket explodes it was probably faulty. Nor do I need to design a new one. lol

The problem is, the list basically covers everything you could possibly do, which leaves no room for anything else. Let's put this in a different way.

Tanks:
-Damage that provides gauge/marker
-AoE that provides gauge/marker
-Defensive oGCDs
-Enmity swapping tools
-Damage oGCDs (including AoE)
-Buff oGCDs
-Raidwide mitigation
-Gap Closer
-Combos to fill in the rest

Tanks share at least 90% 90% of this list. Fantastic. You have just listed everything a tank can do and each variation that they can do it. There is nothing else to add as you have covered all bases. If you want something unique, it needs to not be on the list of everything, however, my claim is that you can design whatever job you want, it WILL fall into the list one way or another. Even if you want to change fight/job design, you will still end up with a job that will follow the list. That is how broad the list that was made is.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Most MMO's I've played are like this. *shrug*

[Kickwars]

The problem is, the list basically covers everything you could possibly do, which leaves no room for anything else. Let's put this in a different way.

Tanks:
-Damage that provides gauge/marker
-AoE that provides gauge/marker
-Defensive oGCDs
-Enmity swapping tools
-Damage oGCDs (including AoE)
-Buff oGCDs
-Raidwide mitigation
-Gap Closer
-Combos to fill in the rest

Tanks share at least 90% 90% of this list. Fantastic. You have just listed everything a tank can do and each variation that they can do it. There is nothing else to add as you have covered all bases. If you want something unique, it needs to not be on the list of everything, however, my claim is that you can design whatever job you want, it WILL fall into the list one way or another. Even if you want to change fight/job design, you will still end up with a job that will follow the list. That is how broad the list that was made is.

Rofl Lost Ark's gunlancer is more interesting than any FF14 tank with only 8+1 skills. You know, you actually feel like tanking in that game.

[Avoidy]

Anytime they introduce something interesting or unique, people just bitch about how it isn't in line with their meta and then it gets smoothed out to be like everybody else. If you want class fantasy, you'd better learn to enjoy PvP I guess.

[Mikey_R]

All you did was repeat what I said, but praised it. lol

You say praise, I say flaw.

This is game design 101. Characters need to have faults to introduce challenges. Encounters need to allow multiple methods of dealing with them. Even moreso in an MMORPG, or it's just a singleplayer beat-em-up. I cannot rely on you, if there's no reason to rely on you. There is nothing in the design outside of healing players that is emergent or reactive. It's all passive and learned. This is especially true for the Job rotations/mechanics.

If the fault is too severe, noone will take the job. If an encounter has multiple ways of doing it, the easiest and safest way will always win out, which could mean a guaranteed slot for one specific job and not adapting to the fight dependant on the party. If you cannot rely on me, why should I rely on you? Nothing wrong with reactive boss mechanics, but that isn't the point in the OP.

I am 100% saying we need to stop being damn carebears about everything, and understand that not every job should be able to do everything, with perfect precision, in the same timing, for all content. This isn't the gotcha you think it is, it's not a good thing. It's the reason we're in this situation to begin with. Even Melee no longer have the fault they were designed for.

If I only want to level Black Mage, but this fight is ass for Black Mage, why should I spend the effort to level Red Mage when I don't want to? Why is it a good thing that you effectively force people to level what they do not want to level?

As for hitboxes, make them smaller, and give melees their positionals back. This has nothing to do with the OPs post however.

It's difficult to come up with a solution to this, because they've made it almost impossible over the years with how efficient they've made every encounter. You are thinking within the box that they've so thoughtfully put you into.
If raid is so important to force every class to be viable at, they don't need to introduce these class faults into them that teeter on full failure, but they do need to introduce class faults overall.

The box OP has drawn is so vague and broad, anything you potentially design will fit into the list in one way or another. Most of the list is just building and spending gauge, with some oGCDs, and ten the AoE equivalent. 10-11 out of the 14 are just the bare minimum you expect, or do you not want jobs to have oGCDs?

Godamn Super Mario Bros 2 has more complex environment and class design than FFXIV.

Single player games cannot be compared to MMOs. The main reason? You don't have a community that expects a fight to be done a certain way to keep consistency between fights and different parties. You can play the single player game however you want, whether it happens to be an RPG or not, however, there will always be that minimum expectation imposed upon everyone in an MMO setting.

[RyuDragnier]

Rofl Lost Ark's gunlancer is more interesting than any FF14 tank with only 8+1 skills. You know, you actually feel like tanking in that game.

Silence TitanMen, stick with one character and stop making alts to troll. Maybe then somebody will take your opinion seriously.

[Hanayumi]

Rofl Lost Ark's gunlancer is more interesting than any FF14 tank with only 8+1 skills. You know, you actually feel like tanking in that game.

Thats the thing though there are "bad" jobs in Lost Ark that folks refuse to take into high end or find too difficult to use. Its a lot harder to have that happen in FFXIV, happens sure but rarely and often gets quickly mended...

[Kickwars]

Silence TitanMen, stick with one character and stop making alts to troll. Maybe then somebody will take your opinion seriously.

You mad that a cashgrab KMMO can make more compelling tank gameplay with one-third of the buttons

[Kickwars]

Thats the thing though there are "bad" jobs in Lost Ark that folks refuse to take into high end or find too difficult to use. Its a lot harder to have that happen in FFXIV, happens sure but rarely and often gets quickly mended...

You can play any job in FF14, easily. It's kind of insane people still want to be one-trick ponies in 2023. A bit of imbalance for more heterogeneity and sharper gameplay is totally fine given that it has never been easier to level a job up. Unlike Lost Ark where you will never have an alt job catch up to you unless you whale.

[R041]

Single player games cannot be compared to MMOs. The main reason? You don't have a community that expects a fight to be done a certain way to keep consistency between fights and different parties. You can play the single player game however you want, whether it happens to be an RPG or not, however, there will always be that minimum expectation imposed upon everyone in an MMO setting.

I can't take you seriously when you actually argued with my Super Mario Bros 2 meme. lol

It's okay that you enjoy mary-sue design for everyone with the power of friendship, but for those of us that don't? It's why this thread was created.

The rest? Literally nothing-discussion when you refuse to understand the basics of character conflict and design. At that point, there's no discussion. You're a brick wall.