We lost 70% of our player base half a year in

[DixieBellOCE]

Yeah, so that still sounds like:

1. Players won't let me explore / read notes
2. Players rush and optimize anyway

Dungeons are wasted on the players that do MSQ. Honestly, remove them from MSQ entirely - Not even joking, the content is 100% wasted on them.

WoW has it right, not everyone wants to do dungeons, so why make them braindead for the MSQ players that don't want to do them anyway. We're basically making both sides suffer because they're catered to the absolute lowest common denominator. Even Variant is just as braindead outside of the boss mechanics.

The overall problem is the content has to pigeonhole itself for literally every type of play, for both new players and tryhards which include side quests, events, and rewards. I don't think it's fair for either of these players. They've now made so many dungeons, and force players to carry MSQ newbies, they can't enjoy the possibility of harder difficulty dungeons. We're forever doomed to repeat MSQ content for leveling and rewards with MSQ sprouts until the game finally dies.

XIV has fallen into the content trap that requires all players to continue the cycle of repeating all past content in order to ultimately avoid making sprouts feel like the game is dead because nobody actually wants to run the content they're doing unless we're forced to.

They're afraid to give us content that diverts us away from Roulettes for too long.

This is an interesting take on it.

What if XIV just.. Removed dungeons/trials from the MSQ and the MSQ just becomes a story with no player interaction required (as it basically is now with Duty Support/Trusts).

Then the people that enjoy combat content in the game can do what they enjoy, with varying levels of difficulty,
The IMVU players can just do their story and go back to afking/clubbing and never have to worry about playing the game again.

Dungeons can be scaled appropriately for the players that do that content without having to worry about the lowest common denominator. Players that want to do combat content naturally get better over time, so having the skill level set higher than average wouldn't be an issue.

I suppose this could work if the MSQ had a 'story mode' where all the battle content is just replaced with cutscenes, because apparently MSQ content is too hard for some people.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

Yeah, so that still sounds like:

1. Players won't let me explore / read notes
2. Players rush and optimize anyway

Dungeons are wasted on the players that do MSQ. Honestly, remove them from MSQ entirely - Not even joking, the content is 100% wasted on them.

WoW has it right, not everyone wants to do dungeons, so why make them braindead for the MSQ players that don't want to do them anyway. We're basically making both sides suffer because they're catered to the absolute lowest common denominator. Even Variant is just as braindead outside of the boss mechanics.

The overall problem is the content has to pigeonhole itself for literally every type of play, for both new players and tryhards which include side quests, events, and rewards. I don't think it's fair for either of these players. They've now made so many dungeons, and force players to carry MSQ newbies, they can't enjoy the possibility of harder difficulty dungeons. We're forever doomed to repeat MSQ content for leveling and rewards with MSQ sprouts until the game finally dies.

XIV has fallen into the content trap that requires all players to continue the cycle of repeating all past content in order to ultimately avoid making sprouts feel like the game is dead because nobody actually wants to run the content they're doing unless we're forced to.

They're afraid to give us content that diverts us away from Roulettes for too long.

Thankfully I don’t see only the bad and instead try to inspire others even if they don’t want it. I for one want the dungeons to remain and have people get better at them. Kick the ones who refuse to or ditch groups who don’t want to learn.

[WeissTuna]

It kinda doesn't matter if the steam charts are a real representation of the community. Cause even when using the steamcharts 90% of your original statement was a blatant lie with tempered evidence.

SB Peak: 40k

ShB Peak: 60k

EW Peak: 90k

And the next expansion will probably go over a 100k peak players on release. And the player number drops always after release and goes up with patches and then drops again before picking up with new expansions again. The game has now more active players than on ShB release.

BUT HEY WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM A FORUM TROLL WHO HAS WEIRDLY ENOUGH EVERY DOL AND DOH JOB ON 90 AND ONLY ONE COMBAT JOB AT 90? Not really here to debate with an obvious troll but some people might start to believe that obvious lie so yeah.

Doubt the next expac will go over 100k. Can't forget the Blizzard drama that was happening a few months prior that caused the "WoW Exodus" and a huge number of players to try out XIV and the expac(And the fact that Shadowlands wasn't popular). Mix that with the biggest WoW content creators streaming XIV, that sequence of events had a lot of influence on the numbers, and it will likely not happen again.

[R041]

I for one want the dungeons to remain and have people get better at them. Kick the ones who refuse to or ditch groups who don’t want to learn.

That sounds truly awful. I'd rather people enjoy the individual bits of content they want to do, instead of forcing MSQ players into the same dungeons being ran by others that've repeated them 1,000 times in Roulettes.

Maybe then we can start getting more engaging content. Shit even the classes themselves are probably suffering because of the players that just want to MSQ.

The damage is already done, they set this plan in motion and it's been a slow conversion. There isn't much else we can do about it unless they make some massive changes and basically force all ARR-EW sprouts to play with bots or start them all in 7.0 with the rest of us. Because otherwise we'll always be running the same old Roulettes, with the same tired systems, just getting stretched thinner and thinner every expac. There's no way we get 5 more expansions like this, any new system they add will always require us to go back into the old treadmill to keep the MSQ itself afloat for Free Trial players.

[Striker44]

Yeah, so that still sounds like:

1. Players won't let me explore / read notes
2. Players rush and optimize anyway

Dungeons are wasted on the players that do MSQ. Honestly, remove them from MSQ entirely - Not even joking, the content is 100% wasted on them.

Personally, I enjoy the dungeons being part of MSQ, and I think they've done the perfect move with trusts. When trusts first came out, I still did new dungeons through DF anyway, because I prefer playing with a group of people, and you can always go back after the dungeon is finished to read any of the flavor text, notes, etc. that might be present. But then I found out they actually have the trusts add specific dialogue that you don't see when going in with a group...so now I usually do a dungeon first with the trust just to soak up the extra commentary and go at my own pace, then it just becomes a natural part of my roulettes afterward.

[VentVanitas]

This is an interesting take on it.

What if XIV just.. Removed dungeons/trials from the MSQ and the MSQ just becomes a story with no player interaction required (as it basically is now with Duty Support/Trusts).

Then the people that enjoy combat content in the game can do what they enjoy, with varying levels of difficulty,
The IMVU players can just do their story and go back to afking/clubbing and never have to worry about playing the game again.

Dungeons can be scaled appropriately for the players that do that content without having to worry about the lowest common denominator. Players that want to do combat content naturally get better over time, so having the skill level set higher than average wouldn't be an issue.

I suppose this could work if the MSQ had a 'story mode' where all the battle content is just replaced with cutscenes, because apparently MSQ content is too hard for some people.

I mean, Guild Wars 2's story quests are predominantly solo instances. Not to say I'm advocating for it, but it's functionally plausible to have an MSQ without dungeons and trials.

[R041]

Personally, I enjoy the dungeons being part of MSQ, and I think they've done the perfect move with trusts. When trusts first came out, I still did new dungeons through DF anyway, because I prefer playing with a group of people, and you can always go back after the dungeon is finished to read any of the flavor text, notes, etc. that might be present. But then I found out they actually have the trusts add specific dialogue that you don't see when going in with a group...so now I usually do a dungeon first with the trust just to soak up the extra commentary and go at my own pace, then it just becomes a natural part of my roulettes afterward.

Trusts are great, and I also love the dialog. But they already washed the dungeons and classes as a solution BEFORE Trusts. So now we have both washed content and Trusts.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

That sounds truly awful. I'd rather people enjoy the individual bits of content they want to do, instead of forcing MSQ players into the same dungeons being ran by others that've repeated them 1,000 times in Roulettes.

Maybe then we can start getting more engaging content. Shit even the classes themselves are probably suffering because of the players that just want to MSQ.

The damage is already done, they set this plan in motion and it's been a slow conversion. There isn't much else we can do about it unless they make some massive changes and basically force all ARR-EW sprouts to play with bots or start them all in 7.0 with the rest of us. Because otherwise we'll always be running the same old Roulettes, with the same tired systems, just getting stretched thinner and thinner every expac. There's no way we get 5 more expansions like this, any new system they add will always require us to go back into the old treadmill to keep the MSQ itself afloat for Free Trial players.

I just don't understand what you guys are talking about because I have more than enough engagement in all of my runs. Them being hallways is completely irrelevant because I'm always doing something. Seriously, what do you want out of dungeons? And be specific, I can't read minds through a screen.

[R041]

I just don't understand what you guys are talking about because I have more than enough engagement in all of my runs. Them being hallways is completely irrelevant because I'm always doing something. Seriously, what do you want out of dungeons? And be specific, I can't read minds through a screen.

Are you one of the lucky few that find plain bread for breakfast exciting? Maybe spice it up a bit once a month with a lil butter?

Once a year, you go out for a meal and the waitress asks "What kind of bread would you like?" and you always answer "White please, thank you", and think to yourself.. "Maybe next time I'll try en English Muffin, or Rye!" but you never do.. You never do.

[DPZ2]

LMAO if you think data generating processes are taught in calculus or even remotely close to calculus or analysis you aren't a statistical expert.

The fact that ultra basic statistical terminology like estimators, consistency, unbiasedness, and DGPs confuse you makes one wonder whether you really understand biostatistics in any way. These are literally covered in a first course in mathematical statistics. We aren't even talking about Frisch-Waugh or asymptotic normality, or even anything related to causal inference.

A Data Gathering Process (DGP) is a relatively generic term for "something that generates data". Go roll some dice. Or flip pennies.

In the case of SteamCharts, the Data Gathering Process consists, as far as I can tell, of sampling how many players are currently playing a game. It's performed once an hour, producing 720 data points per month which are then averaged. 'Peak players' is a highest single data point over the month. An example: Current players on Steam is 31,317. The 24-hour peak, coincidentally, is 31,317.

So, we know how the data is generated for SteamCharts.

Given that, please walk through the proofs for your statistical analysis that there is a 70% drop in the number of players on Steam. Define your variables and provide instances of those variables from the data you chose.

I expect a full breakdown, mind you, rather than the handwaving and blather. Or, perhaps, you cannot actually justify that writing y = f(x,u) gibberish in the first case?