Removal of Positionals

[Payadopa]

To be honest the notion that positionals get in the way of parses is really silly. Anyone that cares about parses and is competent at their job should be happy to have ways to display skill expression and set themselves apart from other players within the same job. Although the current trend in noth fight and job design seem to be going the complete opposite direction. :shrug:

I agree. Everyone complains about SMN being this boring in terms of rotation/optimisation (I love the concept, though) but people here are asking for all jobs to essentially turn more and more into it, funnily enough.

Removing systems is not the answer to stale design.

[UkcsAlias]

Removing systems is not the answer to stale design.

Removing systems makes things more stale. As any removed system makes things more of the same.

Great for those who dont want to learn, variety, min/max or specialists. But bad for those who want to be able to do a lot of things.

Positionals in the current state do feel lackluster, but thats mostly because the other roles are even more lackluster. If the other roles also get a positional based system, this could be improved. Especialy ranged dps jobs could still feature a positional system, and maybe even with extra factors. And surely, initialy they will also feel lackluster, but you need a good start to expand things.

Reaper already shows that on a melee dps positionals often arent realy needed, except for chaining certain effects. And for ranged dps, even if its this simple, it can do a lot. Once they get positionals, the melee dps's can get additional ones with more effects.
And yes, it often will still mean making small steps towards a side, but that is caused by a diffirent issue: engine and latency limitations.

As the server framerate often ends up being low, there arent a lot of boss positional changes. Because each move now already suffers from that latency issue, so you dont want them too often. If this part becomes more reliable, that no longer should be an issue. And that allows more to be added.

[ForteNightshade]

I agree. Everyone complains about SMN being this boring in terms of rotation/optimisation (I love the concept, though) but people here are asking for all jobs to essentially turn more and more into it, funnily enough.

Removing systems is not the answer to stale design.

There is a pretty massive difference between the redesign of Summoner and positionals. As it stands, positionals have little interaction with the overall job and don't necessarily make it more engaging (subjective, of course). The complaints regarding Summoner, meanwhile, derive entirely from its rotation being so incredibly straight forward it can be condensed into a single button macro. Ninja wouldn't change if positionals on Aeolian Edge and Armor Crush were removed. In fact, Dragoon would be better off losing one of its positionals given the long string combo makes it cumbersome to manage.

[Shurrikhan]

Wait, how the heck are DRG positionals "cumbersome to manage"?

You move twice per 10 GCDs, from rear (WT) to flank (F&C) after the 4th and from flank to rear any time between the 4th and 10th GCD (WT2).

Two movements, just 1 way each, per 25 seconds pre-Haste.

Number of positionals =\= amount of repositioning required.

__________________

Note: If Chaotic led into F&C before WT instead, DRG would have the same number of positionals, but double the movement (any, any, rear, flank [1], rear [2], any, any, flank [3], rear [4]).

That's not to say that would be for the better, but there the difference between DRG's current 5 positionals per 10 GCDs and MNK's old 100% positional skills wasn't just a factor of 2. It was nearer to a factor of 3 with a typical Monk rotation, as Monk would only stay in place on DK-Twin-Snap and (True)-Demo-Boot along its sliding rotation.