I know ARR was cut down but it really needs more done with it.

[Atelier-Bagur]

4 of my friends quit the game because they couldn't stand ARR questing.
Good enough example?

You mean they couldnt stand the FFXIV style of questing because ARR has nothing to do for why the entire gameplay aspect of its msq is boring as hell.

I had friends whom also quit after getting to HW or even Shb because they just didnt enjoy how boring the questing is. Like I said, the only way to combat this is to start making quests more engaging as well as going back and retool them. Dont tell me it cant be done. Are you saying that them adding trusts in ARR zones couldnt be done back in 2015? or them reworking the last 3 ARR instances to be less of a chore? I want the devs to do better, and they're clearly interested in going back and reworking the early stuff so I want to encourage them to also rework those quests to be less of a chore but still keep the world building details given in each one for the world to actually matter to you by the time you start to give a damn about it.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

FF14 style questing? ARR isn't the same as questing in the laster expansions which have way less back and forth. Take Heavensward. You constantly are going forward. While there are quest chains in ARR that just have you constantly teleporting all over the place with little to zero combat. A lot of these quest chains could be greatly condensed.

[Thurmnmurmn]

FF14 style questing? ARR isn't the same as questing in the laster expansions which have way less back and forth. Take Heavensward. You constantly are going forward. While there are quest chains in ARR that just have you constantly teleporting all over the place with little to zero combat. A lot of these quest chains could be greatly condensed.

Its almost like one is way larger and is showing you the world and the other is mostly in one specific area.
I agree with Atelier on this one. However the most recent attempt by SE for more engaging quests gave us that one quest from garlemald everyone hates (not gonna go into details due to potential spoilers). So I'd rather keep the old quests compared to stuff like that.

[Nyxs]

It's very, very late for that. Reworking all quests, from ARR to EW is just so unrealistic, all we can hope is that 7.0 forward will be more engaging. For now, taking out the garbage from the most problematic part of the game, the ARR, is the most effective and realistic solution, even if it means scrapping some lore. After all, there is no point of the story if player quits before it finishes.



I don't know why would you ask for pointless examples, you should ask for statistics if you want to prove something, but here you go, first few google results.

- https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ing_ffxiv_and/
- https://steamcommunity.com/app/39210...3332723117754/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._hw_is_so_bad/
- https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...eborn/78930684 This one has poll with 62% going "They could trim it down more."
- https://steamcommunity.com/app/39210...1204140137950/
- Me back in ~2014

As for some statistics, FFXIVcensus has some data which are related to when the players quit. You join GC at MSQ level 20, yet ~69% (nice) of player characters don't even have any GC:

https://ffxivcensus.com/#grandcompany

Obviously this has more of an indicative value, since it counts characters, not players, and it doesn't take into account players quitting in level range of 21-50 and so on. But considering you asked for random examples instead of actual data, I doubt you mind that.

Thank you for doing this. I was just going to tell him to go find pages,google data himself or watch streams. He is just being difficult to be difficult as clearly he doesn’t know the difference between quests that provide content and ones that are pointless which ill just ignore anything he says now as he has proven he has no valid points.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Thank you for doing this. I was just going to tell him to go find pages,google data himself or watch streams. He is just being difficult to be difficult as clearly he doesn’t know the difference between quests that provide content and ones that are pointless which ill just ignore anything he says now as he has proven he has no valid points.

You do know you can both be right. Some quests can be trimmed down but the questing format can also use something as well.
Asking a dumb question doesn't invalidate everything else he says.

[DPZ2]

I don't know why would you ask for pointless examples, you should ask for statistics if you want to prove something, but here you go, first few google results.

- https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ing_ffxiv_and/

An interesting take ... from 2018. Yeah, using a google search works for finding titles that somehow match your preconceived notions, and then you find the actual content drops the thread into other areas quickly.

- https://steamcommunity.com/app/39210...3332723117754/

This one was hardly a complaint about the MSQ. It was, in fact, a complaint about being 'forced' to do dungeon content, especially complaining about the hour it took to finish Praetorium. In 2021.

- https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...eborn/78930684 This one has poll with 62% going "They could trim it down more."

The huge survey of 92 self-selected people who replied to a forum post.

- https://steamcommunity.com/app/39210...1204140137950/

A good question, various answers. The player indicates later that they'll continue to check out HW and beyond.

- Me back in ~2014

Not Me, back in ~2014.

As for some statistics, FFXIVcensus has some data which are related to when the players quit. You join GC at MSQ level 20, yet ~69% (nice) of player characters don't even have any GC:

https://ffxivcensus.com/#grandcompany

The question I have (for which I can find no clear answer on the Github site, and I'm not about to go into source code in the hopes of finding an answer) is "Does the data pulled from Lodestone differentiate between paying players and 'free trial' players and is this accounted for in their statistical analysis?"

It is extremely probable that a large portion of those players got the free trial, played for a few levels and then decided it "wasn't worth their time". My own son, now in his later 20s, was one of them. He much prefers single-player games and hasn't really enjoyed an MMORPG since Wrath of the Lich King. The MSQ did not influence his opinion.

So does the large number of alts some players create. I've certainly had a large number of pre-Ifrit alts on various worlds over the last 8+ years.

[Ravenblade1979]

look. you all can be quoting thousands of players apparently quit because they didn't like msq. who gives a darn. its the video game industry. people quit games for various reasons all the time. that really shouldn't be a part of the discussion. again, they probably could trim down more yet but on the flip side they could also concentrate on making future content more engaging and not the same style of stuff each time.

[Deo14]

An interesting take ... from 2018. Yeah, using a google search works for finding titles that somehow match your preconceived notions, and then you find the actual content drops the thread into other areas quickly.
...
This one was hardly a complaint about the MSQ. It was, in fact, a complaint about being 'forced' to do dungeon content, especially complaining about the hour it took to finish Praetorium. In 2021.
...
The huge survey of 92 self-selected people who replied to a forum post.
...
A good question, various answers. The player indicates later that they'll continue to check out HW and beyond.
...
Not Me, back in ~2014.

I've literally called those examples pointless, I've just linked some random quick search since some genius probably wanted to prove something with them (or more likely he expect lack of them):

Actually show me some examples of people quitting in ARR rather than just saying it because you said so

This is the same person who suggested to rework entire MSQ from ARR to EW btw.

The question I have (for which I can find no clear answer on the Github site, and I'm not about to go into source code in the hopes of finding an answer) is "Does the data pulled from Lodestone differentiate between paying players and 'free trial' players and is this accounted for in their statistical analysis?"

It is extremely probable that a large portion of those players got the free trial, played for a few levels and then decided it "wasn't worth their time". My own son, now in his later 20s, was one of them. He much prefers single-player games and hasn't really enjoyed an MMORPG since Wrath of the Lich King. The MSQ did not influence his opinion.

So does the large number of alts some players create. I've certainly had a large number of pre-Ifrit alts on various worlds over the last 8+ years.

Again, I clearly stated that those statistics are merely indicative of the issues, not some bulletproof, super accurate data. I even specifically said that it takes into account only CHARACTERS not players. Please learn to read everything, not just what you want to see.

It is extremely probable that a large portion of those players got the free trial, played for a few levels and then decided it "wasn't worth their time". My own son, now in his later 20s, was one of them. He much prefers single-player games and hasn't really enjoyed an MMORPG since Wrath of the Lich King. The MSQ did not influence his opinion.

Now this is my favorite quote. You complain that poll in one of those pointless examples has mere 92 players, but then you throw your son's (single person) opinion as if it something that everyone agrees on. You can't make this shit up.

[Atelier-Bagur]

FF14 style questing? ARR isn't the same as questing in the laster expansions which have way less back and forth. Take Heavensward. You constantly are going forward. While there are quest chains in ARR that just have you constantly teleporting all over the place with little to zero combat. A lot of these quest chains could be greatly condensed.

yes it is, sure they add new objectives like interacting with shinies here and there but the msq quest pacing is all bland and no taste. Its literally just go to point a to point b.

Take WoW Dragonflight's msq for example. It has the usual talk with characters, but a lot of the quests involve combat and some limited form of exploration. Also helps that WoW's quest design feels more open and fun than FFXIV. So yeah its not just ARR, its literally the whole game having such a terrible quest style. Story pacing isnt the issue, its the interaction and engagement of these quests that are at fault. Heavensward was no different, Stormblood was no different, Shadowbringers was no different (need I remind the terrible Talos arcs....BOTH TIMES) and Endwalker's was no different although it had its rare moments of engaging quests such as the "In From the Cold" instance, but funny enough people hated it. I guess people hate fun or at the very least anything that involves simple critical thinking on their part for basic rpg progression in their stories since that quest wasnt that hard anyway but I digress.

I hate FFXIV's quests. FIX THEM SE, ITS SUCH BS.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Ah yes, WoW's many gripping quest styles, like kill ten centaurs, collect 20 bear asses, and go talk to that guy. As opposed to XIV's many quest styles, like kill ten cactuars, collect 20 coeurl whiskers, and go talk to that guy.