YPYT is griefing. Tank role is not "puller" role

[UkcsAlias]

You can only be as good as your weakest player.

And too often its those weak players that are complaining and doing ypyt at the wrong moments. A lot of players arent aware of the diffirences certain dungeons can have (a lvl 79 dungeon can have both the tank and healer running with mostly the lvl 70 tomestone gear and just a few other pieces to match ilvl restrictions, which then makes w2w in many areas impossible (and because of that cause a tank to just take the safe route). Or you have people with lvl80 tomestone gear making it trivial). And this will make those players anoyed quickly.

Some people even think that when a tank dies repeatedly that its the healer to blame, not watching the vuln stacks at all (some players realy love collecting these).

[Mostly_Raxus]

truth, some places are rather painful, Vanaspati for instance, after the first 2 packs, the w2w to the 1st boss can be monstrous, especially to a healer still learning, i play a lot of drk and have to be mindful of how much the healer can handle before i try to yank them all, and sometimes different tank/healer combos seem to work better or worse, i def notice as a drk enjoyer, astro healers dont mesh well with us, not that they cant handle it, but it seems to stress them a bit if they dont have experience in stressful situations on the class..

my point is tanks should know how much they can handle, dont assume for them if your not the healer, and if you're the healer just tell them if you are bored and want bigger pulls, but understand some of us tanks wont w2w if we dont think we will live threw it.

[Allegor]

I'd strongly argue Tanks are the "puller" role just by the simple fact they're the only ones who can survive more than 2 hits/a single gcd without healing lol

On a more serious note, as many have stated, it's all about communication and always polite to ask if the tank/healer is ok with big pulls, specially in leveling dungeons when people are undergeared and/or inexperienced more often than not.

I'm not as petty as to let a dps and specially the healer tank mobs they pulled, but if I stated at the beginning of the run that I'm undergeared or still learning, and they still proceed to pull ahead, multiple times, that is indeed griefing.

[Giyari]

I think some of these tanks need to turn on their tank stance and pull targets off of their party members and call it a day, it isn’t that difficult.

You can’t call yourself a tank if you let your party members die because they pulled ahead of you.

If you can’t handle the responsibility, don’t play the role.

[Arivale_Asuraborn]

Real talk:

Not conforming to widely accepted social norms within a community is the actual griefing.

Most players, in most similar games, adhere to the "tank initiates engagements and is responsible for managing positioning and agro" dynamic. This historical precedent sets a baseline expectation that enables people to wordlessly engage with the content and teamplay dynamics.

No one really talks in random dungeons unless they have to. A greeting is maybe 50/50. Same for a "gg". That's it. And the beauty of just rolling with the standard loadout of role-based expectations is that nothing more than that is necessary.


Tanks dictating the pace and being the ones to initiate/pull just makes sense logistically.

There's countless reasons someone may need to micro-afk or have an unexpected/unavoidable hands-off-keyboard/controller situation. We're all fallible humans with our own personal circumstances that we'd like people to be understanding of. But there's different outcomes/consequences for each role if mob pulls keep rolling in when these types of things happen.

Three roles. Three tiers of severity of outcomes when they disappear briefly or for any extended period but pulls keep coming. Tank being gone unexpectedly or unprepared is probably the worst of the scenarios/outcomes. And easily avoidable for a lot of situations by just letting them do their thing rather than feeling the need to go and tag additional mobs just to silence your dps-fixated brain goblin that's shrieking at you for having a couple seconds of downtime.


You do not know the tank's level of familiarity with the content, or their skill level. And they don't need to communicate it because it's already readily apparent by how much they're pulling - that's their comfort level - you already have the communication from them, to you, telling you their comfort/ability/preference - you just don't like the answer/information.


If you're encountering this many situations where you felt the need to make a PSA about it, maybe YTA.


No one should be acting toxic and trying to punish other people by not performing the role they queued for.

But I do not buy the narrative of "The Pure And Innocent DPS Who Was Just Doing What The Rules Say They're Technically Allowed To Do v.s. The Big Mean Bully Tank Who Refused To Do Their Job" - The reality, and probably most flattering scenario, is one where two people are toxic and butt heads, but people like the OP think they have the moral high ground because the rules technically say they're allowed to do what they did.



Weaponizing the ToS/EULA/Player guidelines to wield like a cudgel to engender compliance in your teammates is the absolute zenith of toxicity. I'm truly shockedpikachu.jpg why anyone like the OP is encountering social friction in a team based game.

[dspguy]

Well said.

While there are some cases where the tank is not pulling in the "expected way" out of purposefully toxic behavior. However, any response of pulling over the tank is always toxic behavior. You never know when a tank just isn't familiar with the dungeon/content or still learning the ropes. And while trial by fire might be one solution, another is a 30 second break where the healer says "I got your back, and the DPS will burn it down - give it a try." That right there builds enough confidence in most players to go for it.

[KatiaRelanah]

This question ignores the agency and/or need for the tank to express THEIR desires. Nothing in the rules says you have to W2W; but neither does anything say "tank is the only one that can pull".

So just as a tank deciding to W2W with an inexperienced/slow-to-react healer isn't necessarily in the wrong because they never asked healer "hey are you comfortable with big pulls?", neither are DPS in the wrong for pulling and expecting tank to take aggro. At the most fundamental level, "pulling" isn't a role of ANYONE, so anyone can do it. But tank IS expected to take and hold aggro by virtue of that being their job (else tank stance wouldn't exist).

Of course, this would require a tank to speak up and say "hey guys, I'm not confident in moving this fast, can you not pull for me please?" Now, personally, I don't think that tank really should be making such requests IF healer can manage them - a sprout tank panicking because they are getting down to 10% HP routinely and having no trust in their healer's ability should take it as a learning experience that they don't need to be so cautious.

My personal feelings aside, of course, at the end of the day once the tank expresses a gameplay preference, the others should accommodate, same as if the healer demanded to slow things down (and the inverse is true, if one or the other of the healer or tank wanna push W2W, that's THEIR preference). If you have one of each - healer wants to W2W, tank wants to single pull - communication needs to occur to find a compromise, or for one or the other to concede their desire entirely. Of course, god forbid you even entertain the notion of doing something in any way closer to how someone else wants to do things.

But if like, 3/4 of the party verbally/textually agrees to single pull and then you have one DPS still grabbing extra mobs, then and only then does it become demonstrably disruptive play on their part.

Short of that, if tank doesn't otherwise say "I don't like having these many mobs on me" or healer doesn't say "I can't keep up with healing tank with these pulls", then there's no case. Tank refusing to take aggro isn't doing their job, and hasn't expressed any reason (personal or gameplay-wise) why they aren't doing so. Once tank DOES express their feelings, then and only then can the 3 other party members be expected to consider them as a factor; but they aren't fucking mind readers who can tell you have "tanxiety" and it's not their job to pull slowly just in case you're nervous. It IS your job to take aggro.

[Kele_Star]

Its crazy how much seriously people take something thats suppose to be a fun game.

If you dont vibe with your party, leave and find a new one. Complaining about it is just screaming into a void you will never control how others play no matter how many threats you make or long diatribes you post.

[Nestama]

Well said.

While there are some cases where the tank is not pulling in the "expected way" out of purposefully toxic behavior. However, any response of pulling over the tank is always toxic behavior. You never know when a tank just isn't familiar with the dungeon/content or still learning the ropes. And while trial by fire might be one solution, another is a 30 second break where the healer says "I got your back, and the DPS will burn it down - give it a try." That right there builds enough confidence in most players to go for it.

Then I guess I'm toxic. Unlike DPS and Healing roles, Tanks have it the easiest that they're practically getting carried by everyone. All they gotta do is AoE and pop mitigations and they're the perfect Tank. All dungeons play out the same with the only difference being boss fights.

ARR dungeons it's fine to go slow, but once you're at 50 to (and especially) 90, maybe it's time to go w2w.

[Dangerjoe1982]

I'm one of those guys that will actually try and get aggro back, but it still has issues when dps pulls a lot of stuff for you.

1. most important one: dps cant see my defensive cooldowns, and pulling ½ the dungeon while they are on CD is often a wipe. There's a reason why I sometimes slow down a bit.
2. Mob placement often gets messed up, and AoEing them down takes a bit longer.
3. dps has no feeling of the healer, tank gets that from like the first pull. If the healer struggles to keep you alive after pulling 6 mobs, it's properly a bad idea for the dps to pull another 6 because he wants to go faster.