SCH - Faerie Galmour: Discuss!

[Renathras]

This was always the strangest of bizarre takes to me. I've played multiple MMOs before this one. FF14 is the first game I've ever seen with I pLaY a HeALeR TO heAL, HeALeRS SHouLd HeAL ONLY advocacy group. I've never seen an RPG where anyone's argued this. It's the weirdest box to cage the healer role in, and it's so anti-reality that it hurts my brain.

Keep in mind in a lot of MMOs, it was expected that Healers only used their damaging abilities in solo content. In WoW for example, Vanilla, BC, ARGUABLY Wrath (arguably because Tanks could practically solo Heroics), and Cata moreso than most (I don't remember Mists, but think it was like BC or Wrath), Healers were expected to NOT use damage abilities unless they didn't cost MP, because MP management was actually a thing. This was most true in Cata, because they also hit like wet noodles, meaning you often had to devote GCDs (well, WoW's equivalent) to chain casting your weak, long cast, low healing but mana efficient cure so that you wouldn't get overwhelmed later. It was actually a big deal when Resto Druid Wrath became 0 mana cost, and Resto Shaman's Lightning Bolt actually helped them recover mana, because before then, they just didn't do much DPSing.

There wasn't an argument of "I play Healer to heal" because the community-wide position was "Healers should heal only". It was so strong, there WASN'T a "Healers should DPS!" advocacy group until Wrath (because content was often undertuned), which made Cata an even stronger wake-up call. I think the next place it popped up was around Warlords pre-patches with ONE exception, which was Mistweaver/Fistweaver Monk, because it was designed in such a way it could heal in melee by doing attacks, and Disc was reworked into a similar vein - Disc before Mists (or was it before Cata?) was just a somewhat weaker Holy Priest that used Power Word: Shield more. Now, this was never IRONCLAD - some Healers it was more and some less (Holy Priest, for example, had very mana INefficient attacks, like Smite, but PLD had some low mana costing attacks on short CDs that could be useful for the party, like Judgement of Light/Wisdom for the party/raid to generate health/mana by attacking the boss) - but it was generally given that unless you were using specific classes/specs, you did not do damage unless there was just no healing that needed doing, and then the damage you did was the stuff with no MP cost ("I'm going to WAND you to death!!") unless you just ALSO had a big surplus of MP and were probably in the party with the Shadow Priest mana battery.

The WoW community strongly held to the "healers should heal only" position because its own roots were players coming over from Everquest, where Healers typically DID only heal, often in turns with other Healers, with some sitting/meditating (IN BATTLE, mind you) for mana recovery when it wasn't their turn to be actively healing.

So no, FF14 is not the first game - unless you've never seen WoW in its heyday? - that had this attitude, nor is it "the weirdest box" for people to think "healer, the role that heals", nor "anti-reality".

It's not even that odd in FF14, since ARR and arguably HW for WHM's played this way as well for most content/most players. Partly because a lot of ARR players were either coming over from FF11 (where WHM also did the heal/buff only thing) or WoW (where many of its Healers, including the closest WHM parallel, Holy Priest, also did the heal/buff only thing for the most part). Note that while modern WoW healers are more offensive (even Holy Priest) like FF14, that WASN'T the case back in the day, nor how players approached it due to the Everquest roots.

Indeed, it's very much true that MMO healing originated with "healers should heal only". That is the original and default state of MMO healers.

Keep in mind in other MMOs healers mostly just supported with buffs and all that as well. Damage moves were there, but if you were using them literally you had nothing to do, which did not happen that often. One of the MMOs I played I was having to throw out buffs left and right when I wasn't healing, and I got to use a single damage move once every 30s-1m depending on where we were at and the group. I have a sneaking suspicion that was part of the mindset, the fact that healers in other MMOs were mostly just plain support, DPS was something you just didn't do that often.

Exactly this.

Just a setup to consolidate the fairies in 1 button to give that free hot bar a new ability for 7.0. A returning, improved ability? That’s what I’m assuming.

Hm, maybe so. I wonder what it'll be...

Though honestly, SCH could do with 1-2 less buttons...but meh.

It's funny because in games like WoW you have a whole range of dps buttons with the option to talent into more

NOW, yes. That wasn't always the case. In BC, Holy Paladin had just Judgement, I think. Excorcism specifically for Undead, and Holy Shock if you weren't using it for healing. Judgement and Holy Shock each had CDs, meaning you couldn't spam them (the CDs were relatively shortish, I think Judgement was 30 seconds at the time and Holy Shock may have been similar). Late BC and into Wrath, Judgement's CD was lowered to I think 6 seconds. That was your attack "rotation". Judgement of Light/Wisdom every 6 seconds. Oh, and you got to use Hammer of Wrath every 30 seconds or so when the enemy was in Execute (less than 20% HP) phase. Oh, and you only had two general use heals, Flash of Light (quick, fast, mana efficient, relatively weak) and Holy Light (slower, more mana costly, big heal)...and Holy Shock. Paladin didn't get their first AOE heal until the Cataclysm pre-patch, not counting that one Wrath glyph that made either FoL or HL do a light splash heal (maybe if used on the Beacon of Light, I forget). I think Consecration was still a Protection or Retribution talent until...Wrath, maybe?

I'm going to say Holy Priest had only Shadow Word: Pain, Smite, and the one with the CD (30 sec, later 12?) that did the fire from the sky and put a holy burning DoT on the target, and Smite was HORRIBLY mana inefficient for the damage done, so you couldn't chain cast it. I remember leveling it with only three abilities and using some Disc talents for Wand Mastery (autoattack - yes, seriously, this was the norm) until the Shadow tree got to Shadowform around level 40 or so. Then it was Mind Flay spam for Jesus until level cap. And that was in BC with a Blood Elf where I had a second DoT (I think) that...I think they later got rid of all the Race specific spells like that. I think they picked one or two to make baseline and dumped the rest. And then later, dumped those as well.

Also: Stop using "Sylphies" as a derogatory term. Actually, just stop using it at all. It's not ever going to help you. And if you have to accuse people who disagree with you of wanting to be carried, you need to reevaluate your (ad hominem fallacy) position. At best, it makes you seem a toxic person/jerk, and that's at best. Especially since most of those same players ask for the game to be made harder, but on the HEALING side of things. And I don't know what FF14 players you know, but I know of no one that would be "absolutely delighted" with a DoT + passive HoT pulses and a single AOE 1500 potency heal. I highly doubt that would, in fact, be "the most played job by a mile".

But hey, only one way to find out...

It's because FFXIV is **extremely** casual from the get go, despite the game telling you in multiple instances that DPS as a healer is recommended.

No, it really doesn't.

It's like I said, most people that picked up FFXIV originally came from games where the norm was that Healers did few or even no damage, and if they did, only did so during specific times and once they really knew an encounter and knew when it was safe to do so and that they'd have absolutely no mana issues doing so OR were playing a class specifically designed to do some damage to augment or facilitate...its healing.

And no, the CNJ questline isn't everything, and the SCH quest only talks about healing and shielding, not about DPSing. But we've had THAT conversation before here...

[SweetPete]

…….all I can think of to add a new ability, that cost fairy gauge(they need tools to use that thing and not just a tether) is……lol. It’ll be funny if it does a AoE crit buff of 3% for 50 fairy gauge. May as well be the shield healer to have crit buffs as its identity. Let SGE have the high dmg DPS.

Honestly the tether shouldn’t be tied to the aether gauge anymore. I’d love for it to just be a straight regen on someone. Mainly the tank lol.

[ForsakenRoe]

And no, the CNJ questline isn't everything, and the SCH quest only talks about healing and shielding, not about DPSing. But we've had THAT conversation before here...

Hall of the Novice says as much. If you are against 'do damage when your allies are not in danger of dying', you've literally failed the game's tutorial

And for the WOW stuff, you have to remember there's big differences between that game and this. Namely, Wands and auto's from Paladins were more akin to DPS here, where it's a much larger source of damage. Also, you forget there's stuff like Clearcasting procs for Druid and Shaman, where you could (in vanilla, not sure about later) trigger 'your next spell or action costs no resource' by doing an autoattack and getting a proc. So it's possible to argue that the dev intention was for the healing druid to manage their mana not just by using downranked spells, but by autoattacking to get those clearcast procs. Considering the 'levelling rotation' for Priest back then was 'Shield, SW:P, wand to death', downplaying the effectiveness of wands is kinda silly IMO. Especially with Judgements of Light/Wisdom triggering their effects because of wand hits. And I don't remember Judgement being 30s at any point. In Vanilla it needed a seal active, and consumed the seal to trigger an effect dependent on that seal, but it was the seal's duration, not CD that was 30s. The seal application was GCD. In TBC Judgement was 'requires a seal, doesn't consume it' and in Wrath they just changed Judgement to 'Judgement of X', completely de-linking them from the seals. At all stages, I only ever saw Judgement's CD as 10s, talentable to be lower.

Anyway back to the original point, Feo Ul Seraph Glamour option or riot

[Payadopa]

Most people never touched Selene even when you could swap between them. Eos' Whispering Dawn was just considered too good to give up.

And see where that thinking got us. It's about time we stop balancing the fun out of the game. If something is numerically better I don't care as long as it's fun.

[AmiableApkallu]

Anyway back to the original point, Feo Ul Seraph Glamour option or riot

I don't want a Feo Ul glamour. I want to straight up be able to summon her.

[Axxion]

Most people never touched Selene even when you could swap between them. Eos' Whispering Dawn was just considered too good to give up.

the sad part is i loved selene more than eos. Selene offered more then eos

[Renathras]

Honestly the tether shouldn’t be tied to the aether gauge anymore. I’d love for it to just be a straight regen on someone. Mainly the tank lol.

Agreed. Aetherpact should just be a toggle you can turn on and turn off when you feel like it that has Eos focus on someone specific vs her normal mode of healing based on HP%s.

Hall of the Novice says as much. If you are against 'do damage when your allies are not in danger of dying', you've literally failed the game's tutorial

Perhaps you don't realize it, but many of us were playing before Hall of the Novice was released. Not to mention what it actually says:

1 - Learning evasion. - You can attack with Aero and Stone, but you cannot actually kill either opponent. This is entirely about avoiding telegraphed AOEs.

2 - Healing allies. "When it comes to your plae in a party you are the soothing wind of restoration. As such, rather than engaging the enemy directly, your primary role is to focus upon the mending of wounds. With the support of your dilligent healing, your party will prevail against even the most savage of foes! Now that you understand what is expected of you, we can continue with the lesson. The upcoming exercise requires that you keep your ally healed. Provide support, defeat the enemy, and victory will be yours!" "This training exercise is now underway. Your primary concern should be healing your ally! When you've healed all there is to heal, there may be time to weave in some offensive magics. But keep an eye on your companion! You should not be blasting if someone is bleeding!" "Well done! A focused healer is a boon to any party! Even when it's safe to attack, always keep one eye on your allies' health!" - This seems to strongly say "healers are for healing" and "you should only be attacking when allies are at full health" ("when someone is bleeding" means "when someone is less than 100%"; this is how "blood agro" works with undead/ashkin in FFXIV - most notably in Eureka, but most ashkin have that form of agro in the overworld [just also proximity])

3 - Heal multiple allies. This one is about being able to switch targets and watch multiple party members' health at once. And note that Medica does not work on the NPCs, so you have to Cure 1 them. "Battle is chaotic, and you must needs learn flexibility. Thus, you will find yourself in a scenario in which sudden reinforcements threaten your party. You will need to stay alert, and switch your attention between allies as the situation demands. Provide support, defeat the enemy, and victory will be yours!" "Focus your attention on the well-being of your companions! There's a new enemy on the field! You'll need to keep an eye on the health of both alles! Your ally is faltering! You must cast Cure, and swiftly! Another enemy threatens your party! You might try attacking this foe if your allies are uninjured." "Spreading one's heals amongst many can be a trying task. To succeed in your role, however, you must learn to quickly assess who is most in need of mending!" - Note here again, "if your allies are uninjured", not "if your allies are above 1 HP".

4 - This lesson is about evading attacks (lesson 1) combined with healing your tank (lesson 2) and mentions not clipping your party. "For this exercise, you will learn to heal whilst avoiding harm. As before, you must watch for signs you are being attacked. Move swiftly, and time your casts to avoid interruption. Success will be a matter of combining lessons already learned! Provide support, defeat the enemy, and victory will be yours!" "Avoid enemy attacks, and heal your allies! If you are hit five times, we shall start again from the beginning!" "Well done! Slippery as an eel, novice!" "Not bad, aye... Care to dodge this?!" "Stand clear of your companions! An attack that targets you need not threaten them as well! Your ally is faltering! You must cast Cure, and swiftly! Victory is within reach! Be on your guard until the very last!" "Nice footwork! Be wary of those foes cunning enough to target the source of healing!" - Note here it doesn't even mention attacking. Also, the cast Cure message pops around when an ally gets below 75-80% health.

5 - Final Exercise. "And now we come to the final exercise... As the culmination of your training, all the skills you've acquired will be put to the test. Put your lessons into practice and you'll do just fine! We can begin as soon as you are ready." "As always, healing is your primary concern! Attack only when it is safe to do so! Watch out for the jackal! Be sure your ally does not fall to its jaws! Another jackal! Keep an eye on your lightly armored companion! Now the battle becomes interesting... You'll need to watch your positioning here. Your last opponent looms! This one packs a wallop, so stay on your toes! The end is in sight! Be sure your allies survive the battle! Congratulations-the exercise is complete! Come see me for your reward!" "I knew you were ready for the challenge! Here. I bestow this gift upon all who complete my training course!" - Again, note the decided lack of focus on offense. Offense is, yet again, treated as a subsidiary action, and one you only do if everything else is just fine, with a focus on healing - keeping your party topped off or close to it, not "the only HP that counts is the last one" type of mentality - and constantly reinforcing that healing, not dealing damage, is your primary concern. There is nothing that even close to resembles "damage is the best form of mitigation" or "all roles are DPS roles" anywhere in there.

MAY be time to weave in some offensive magics. IF your allies are UNINJURED. HEALING is your PRIMARY CONCERN.

Collectively, this is saying "Do damage only when all your allies are topped off at full health (uninjured) and only if it doesn't place you in harms way (in a telegraph) or prevent you from healing an ally who is not full health". It doesn't say "not in danger of dying" it says "if your allies are uninjured". That's the difference between "the only HP that matters is the last HP" and "if your allies are not at 100%, get them to 100%".

And for the WOW stuff, you have to remember there's big differences between that game and this.

Oh, I know. But I was countering the point that it made no sense to Semi by saying it was actually the norm at the time. Even now in WoW, from what I understand, some healers are designed to be used more offensively while others are still designed to be used for mostly healing with their DPS kits being more for solo or Mythic.

Clearcast procs were generally used for heals in Vanilla (by Resto), not attacks, though. Vanilla WoW is where the phrase "if your class has a healing spec, you're a healer" came from. Though I'd be a BIT cautious about reading too much into Vanilla Talents. Recall Vanilla had some Talents that were "adds 10 to X stat". Not 10%. 10. As in 10 of that substat. Granted, that mattered a lot more back then, but even back then, people realized quickly that the Devs didn't ALWAYS know what they were doing with Talents and stats. Note that those procs were later changed.

The original version of this was for Feral Druids (Bear/Cat) to make their next attack cost no Rage/Energy, and it seemed to be wonky (read the Wowhead comments and note someone pointing out it proced when they were crafting an Elixir. )

"Yes, with the changes made during the 3.1 patch, Omen now procs off of doing just about anything. From cooking to creating bandages to cutting gems to changing specs and even forms. Blizzard even changed it to make it more beneficial to bear tank spec'd druids. Pre-3.1, Omen only proc'd off of auto attacks when you did not use Maul. But with 3.1, they addressed the issue that made most full bear-spec'd druids not even get Omen. It now procs properly during auto attacks even when Maul is being used."

I also wasn't downplaying Wands, but more pointing out that Wanding was autoattacking. In FFXIV, this would be the equivalent to a WHM casting Aero then Stonespam until the enemy died, possibly casting Regen before Aero (to take the place of the Power Word: Shield - back in the day, this would have been using Stoneskin before initiating combat).

I'm trying to remember when they changed it, I think it was 2.4? In Vanilla, Paladin was well known as the "can play with one hand" boring class in the game. I think the seals where 30 sec duration or something stupid since they were consumed by Judgement when you used it. They were changed to something like 2 min duration and Judgement shortened in BC, and in 2.4, it was changed again (I started playing at the very end of Vanilla, but made two characters to play with my friend when BC started, a BE Mage to level with him and a BE Paladin to level myself if he wasn't online or was raiding on his max level Forsaken Mage. I tried Priest and Paladin and found that on Paladin, I died far less so figured I had more chance to actually reach level cap; and I wanted a healer, hence the playing those and Paladin became my main close to the end of BC. Got my Mage to 70 about 3 months before Wrath and played my Paladin pretty much exclusively from then on other than in BGs.)

I distinctly remember them changing it on me at the very end of BC, so I think it was 2.4 since I was already in Outland by then. And I vaguely remember what Vanilla was since my first characters to try were a Human Priest and Dwarf Paladin even then, not to mention most of BC used basically that same system. I think it was 2.4 when they changed it to not consuming a Seal or increased the seal duration to 2 mins. Before then, your rotation was every 30 sec, apply seal, Judge. The CD may have been on the seal, but you couldn't judge without a seal, so it was effectively Judgement's CD as well. And that was it. That was your entire rotation other than spot healing yourself with Holy Light or something. I guess Judgement's own CD was something like 8 seconds at the time?

Crusader Strike hadn't been added yet (was either Wrath or Cata, I think Cata because that's when Paladins got the Holy Power thing), and Holy Shock had a 30 sec CD in its original incarnation, and Consecration was a Talent (Ret or Prot, I forget which) originally, and even when it wasn't, was pretty mana expensive so not typically used by Paladins on healing duty.

Vanilla and BC Holy Paladin's rotation was Seal, Judge, wait for CD, Seal, Judge, wait for CD, repeat, with the occasional Holy Shock if you weren't using it for healing, and then adding Hammer of Wrath (on its CD) once the enemy was below 20%. And yeah, in Wrath they changed it to no seals and just a flat CD (12 sec base?). Though mass farming became possible with some Prot talents. Seal of Light, Judgement, Consecration, Seal of Wisdom, Judgement, Holy Light, back and forth and some Avenger's Shield in there for good measure.

.

Honestly, we should start a thread doing a really deep dive into it sometime, because it is an interesting topic, and people bring it up all the time. But when FFXIV launched, the WoW healing model was also much less offensive minded itself outside of Fistweaver Monks.

Anyway back to the original point, Feo Ul Seraph Glamour option or riot

"You'll get Carby and you'll like it!"

Plus side, SMN now even has the worse Carby as SCH's Carby will actually be doing things... <_< Maybe "plus" isn't the right word for that...

[Osmond]

Honestly the tether shouldn’t be tied to the aether gauge anymore. I’d love for it to just be a straight regen on someone. Mainly the tank lol.

I know, I sometimes wonder why this exist. I’ll be ok if you sacrifice 50 gauge for a targeted 300 potency regen for 15 secs. That way I can just create a macro, make my job way easier.

[ty_taurus]

I know, I sometimes wonder why this exist. I’ll be ok if you sacrifice 50 gauge for a targeted 300 potency regen for 15 secs. That way I can just create a macro, make my job way easier.

I actually would like to see the tether replace Embrace, not tied to the gauge, and receive the proper adjustments to stand in for your faerie's normal healing. The visual effect can be made less intense that way it's not too distracting for the person you're tethering to, but the faerie would follow them instead of you unless you place them somewhere. The main reason why I'd like this change is it would stop the faerie from constantly being in some type of casting loop and would make the command to use Whispering Dawn or Fey Blessing faster and more responsive. It would also make it easier to have more actions that stem from the faerie.

[AmiableApkallu]

Collectively, this is saying "Do damage only when all your allies are topped off at full health (uninjured) and only if it doesn't place you in harms way (in a telegraph) or prevent you from healing an ally who is not full health". It doesn't say "not in danger of dying" it says "if your allies are uninjured". That's the difference between "the only HP that matters is the last HP" and "if your allies are not at 100%, get them to 100%".

lol. I started FFXIV in post-ShB. It is my first MMO. What you say is literally not what I took away from Hall of the Novice. At no point did I walk away with the idea that I should keep the party at full health at all times. If anything I walked away with some notion in between "the only HP that matters is the last" and "keep everyone at 100%." The former feels scary and risky if you're a n00b. The latter is a fool's errand because the tank will almost always be under 100% unless you're heal spamming them -- which is just as boring as spamming Stone/Glare/Broil/etc. 24/7.