FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[Renathras]

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Right, but we don't have three parties here. We have four parties here. So the example would be one wanting to tuition rates to increase, one wanting to keep them as they are, one wanting them to be cut, and one wanting them abolished. That was my point, we'd have to ask the question with ONLY three options before we could look at them as only three options.

Since we have all four, we need to work in the context of that.

It's also interesting to me that results leveled off a few days ago, but have started coming in again all more negative. EXCEPT (ironically?) for SCH, where they're oddly positive.

Anyway, the problem with the names "Mini" and "Major" is, again, it depends on who you ask. For example, your idea is to add a short CD GCD, an opposite Misery that heals that you can only get by doing damage, making the DoT duration shorter so it's more difficult to maintain/juggle. Depending on the person, those would be Major changes. Minor would be something like "Add Aero 3 and call it a day". A really minor tweak that doesn't really alter the gameplay experience much or at all. Honestly, a shielding Lily spender would be less of a rework. Adding Aero 3 (though at least half of that has got to be people missing the animation, lol - that's why I support it. ) would already arguably do the Dia thing anyway, and could have a 15 sec CD and 15 sec duration and do both of those things at the same time.

I also doubt they'll ever add in an ability called Cleric anything, just because of the legacy of that name. Besides, that's basically a slightly different Presence of Mind, isn't it? Just making PoM 60 sec CD would achieve the same result. We don't want to end up with PLD where we have FoF and Requiescat that may as well be one ability but aren't because...button bloat. There's no real good answer for that one otherwise.

I also am not sure WHM needs a new spell. Though I think (as I said in the Healer forums) having Lilies work as some kind of Eukrasia toggle might actually be an interesting solution since new heals could be added over time as just variations on the GCD heals across the board for WHM instead of as distinct abilities/buttons. But that (or making all GCD heals on WHM generate 1/3rd Blood Lily) WOULD be more in the area of major overhaul. Oddly, I'd be fine with that if it was along the lines I said before.

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I guess, for better or worse, I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy. I see 5, I think "pretty decent; nothing to write home about, but not bad by any means".

EDIT:

I wish they never got rid of Aero 3. It had amazing animation.

Hehehe, knew it!

I'm right there with ya, though!

[ForsakenRoe]

Right, but we don't have three parties here. We have four parties here. So the example would be one wanting to tuition rates to increase, one wanting to keep them as they are, one wanting them to be cut, and one wanting them abolished. That was my point, we'd have to ask the question with ONLY three options before we could look at them as only three options.

Right, but 'no change' means 'no change', so it'd be more like them being 'rates stay as is' as one end of the scale, and then the rest of the scale being 'rates cut by 30%', 'rates cut by 60%' and 'the government actually pays the students a grant to go to uni, and it also doesn't have fees at all'. I don't see how 'Mini rework' can equate to 'the fees stay exactly as is' because nothing is getting reworked in that example.

As for what constitutes a Mini or Major rework, that's down to each person. As I've said before, I consider 'no' to be the level of small changes you see in an expansion update, such as how WHM got a new Glare rank, all of it's heals got bumped in potency by a trait, Aquaveil and Lilybell. 'Aero 3 returns and call it a day' is in that territory if it is the only change that occurs. Mini rework to me means NIN GCD Mudras, it's not a massive thing that completely flips the gameplay of the class, but it was a noticeable change, and it also made TCJ feel 'not bloody awful' in the same patch. What I've listed, minus one point (eg, without the 'do damage charge gauge' and associated heal) would be what I'd consider to fall in the center of Mini. That heal having a new gauge element attached is what drags the list up towards Major (but not completely into), as it'd require a whole new graphical element to be made. Now, if these changes all made it in, alongside getting a bunch of new stuff for the expansion at the same time, then yeh I can see why it'd start to be considered a Major rework. So I'd take out some of them to be implemented at a later date (in the X.1 patch most likely), and I'd nominate the gauge and it's associated heal because they're the ones that'd take the most work, so delaying just those allows for the rest to more easily be done in time for X.0 release

Major is SHB DRK, removing Dark Arts and replacing it with Edge/Flood, removing MP management almost entirely (now it's just 'use if about to overcap, save for burst), changing TBN break bonus from 'gives blood' to 'gives a proc that allows a free Edge', removing Blood Weapon's haste, changing Delirium from 'extend BW duration' to 'grants X uses of Bloodspiller' to mirror WAR. That's quite a list of changes, and so it goes in 'Major'

And then there's Total Overhaul. And I'd consider very few of these to have occurred so far in the game, most stuff falls into Major. 2.1 WAR, 4.0 BRD (removal of the cast times), 5.0 MCH (adding the whole multitool thing, removing the permanent-turret and the raidbuff from hypercharge), and 6.0 SMN (the best example of 'totally overhauling a class'). Now, you might have different views on what constitutes each category and that's fine, Ty probably could have done with putting examples on the question like 'How much does this class need a rework? No rework refers to 'just the usual expansion updates', Mini refers to change on the scale of (whatever change that is small), Major refers to change on the scale of(whatever change is kinda big), and Total Overhaul refers to change on the scale of (probably 6.0 SMN as the example)

As for Cleric, fine, name it Seraph Strike, problem solved. And if FOF/Req is an issue, there's solutions. Like have Confiteor apply Req's effect and remove Req entirely (the burst window already starts with FOF anyway), or better yet, just delete Req and have Conf combo do it's 'Req damage' naturally, since Confiteor is a 60s CD it's gated off anyway. Also, again, NIN has Trick at 1min for selfbuff and Mug at 2 for raidbuffing. We don't hear for calls for Trick to be removed because it's so synonymous with NIN (and it'd leave the job with literally zero reason to use Suiton), so I don't see why having a 1min and a 2min buff is such an issue for WHM. You also have to remember, I think 4.1 WAR was peak tank design, and that had a 2min big burst (IR Berserk) and a smaller 1 min burst (just Berserk), so maybe I'm just more attuned to the idea

Compiled SAM threads regarding Kaiten removal and wanting it back -> " Click Here " <- it's a crap ton. I stopped compiling at like idk 155 threads? give or take. And the video references as well from multiple creators. I just started losing count. SAM is still fun, but many do still want it back.

I find it hilarious and sad in equal measure that we have so many people, with so many posts, giving their view that Kaiten's removal was not good, and now this survey has so many responses saying 'extra info: yeh uhh kaiten removal was dumb pls bring back'. And yet SE won't listen. Maybe everyone has to drop the job and it'll get changed, like the old BowMage issue.

[CelestiCer]

I find it hilarious and sad in equal measure that we have so many people, with so many posts, giving their view that Kaiten's removal was not good, and now this survey has so many responses saying 'extra info: yeh uhh kaiten removal was dumb pls bring back'. And yet SE won't listen. Maybe everyone has to drop the job and it'll get changed, like the old BowMage issue.

True. Square does not listen to Player-Feedback. We all know the phrases by now.

• We are sorry for the inconvenience...
• Give it a try...
• Hope you like it...
• Give us your feedback...

They'll refer you to the forums where you get ignored.

WHM wanting more then just Glare? Lol. MCH identity? pff. RDM can die with their lack of self-mits you got to keep your utility tax, fun. Everything's an AoE circle that's all we can handle after all. Screw your Gameplay, your Dots, your Pets and your Kaiten it's way easier on the devs this way/ for balancing reasons. Saw those reworks we did? DRG's and AST's? " Look forward to it ". /s

My expectations are non-existing. I skip everything after Kaiten removal and the only thing that's appealing are friends I made, housing decors and getting helpers high by helping PF groups clear raids.

Yoshi P's final argument to me makes no sense... " Just go Play Ultimate ". A job does not get more fun by doing a specific content, not for me. Savage is a snooze fest and I tried Ultimate, the experience is not fun. I had more fun spamming Kaiten for 8 hours farming Fates with a cone shaped Tenka Goken? over P6S. I can do that for days. Content does not make my Job fun. Making and keeping our gameplay Fun? makes our Job fun. And once our Job remains fun? all content regardless difficulty remains Fun. I'll spam Bozja again, I'll do fates, I'll queue up expert even when I am maxed on Tomes, I'll do every boring piece of content mindlessly because My job is Fun. Take that away? yeah... then " Take a break from the Game when it's not good " I guess right?