how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

[magitekLuna]

If the Mods were contacted about it, Ill let them deal with it.
Im just never responding to that person again regardless if they did/Didn't make that KYS post.
Several times I have explained my post and gave them the Benefit of the doubt, just for them to then Call me a Trash Person.

That bit right there opens up the Possibility they did make the KYS post, but then edited into a Nicer Non-Ban worthy Version.
Maybe. Its up to the Mods to decide, and Im done with magitekLuna in General

no no i did say what i did say and i stand by it. get me banned? so be it. some times people need to heard the hard shit.

now to the point "So I don't think Diablo is an MMO. I have my own idea of what an MMO is with examples." but you did not played diablo4 . i talk about 4 not the other 3. the first 3 clearly never was an MMO. now any thing can be an MMO. don't even need to be RPG. you just need to have an "open" world or zones where you see other players and can interact whit them. party up and kill things.
if you cant even understand simple things as such then god help you.

[EliaStormblade]

no no i did say what i did say and i stand by it. get me banned? so be it. some times people need to heard the hard shit.

now to the point "So I don't think Diablo is an MMO. I have my own idea of what an MMO is with examples." but you did not played diablo4 . i talk about 4 not the other 3. the first 3 clearly never was an MMO. now any thing can be an MMO. don't even need to be RPG. you just need to have an "open" world or zones where you see other players and can interact whit them. party up and kill things.
if you cant even understand simple things as such then god help you.

[kevin_satron]

ay yo, what is this comments talking about "kys" post that are edited or deleted. can i see it?

[Shinkuno]

no no i did say what i did say and i stand by it. get me banned? so be it. some times people need to heard the hard shit.

now to the point "So I don't think Diablo is an MMO. I have my own idea of what an MMO is with examples." but you did not played diablo4 . i talk about 4 not the other 3. the first 3 clearly never was an MMO. now any thing can be an MMO. don't even need to be RPG. you just need to have an "open" world or zones where you see other players and can interact whit them. party up and kill things.
if you cant even understand simple things as such then god help you.

If you stood by it, why did you edit it out? Assuming you edited and not a moderator.

[Amarande]

People want everything without doing anything, so why would people actually play it as an MMO ? If there is anything just a tiny bit challenging, people complain they actually have to play the game and have to "bother" with it while they have an IRL job a wife and kids and that they dont have time

There's a grain of flippancy and a grain of truth here, TBH.

I'd like to think that people don't really "not want to play the game" in the truest sense of the word. The problem is more complex, and has a lot to do with the stampede culture that the folks that do still have basically arbitrary free time impose on MMOs.

The people with the freest schedules jump on content the day it comes out, and once they clear it, they want nothing more to do with the rest of the (insert favorite hardcore player culture pejoratives here).

As a result, the people whose schedules are less flexible get on the game, try to actually play it, and what do they find? Duty Complete, LINK ACHIEVE FOR INVITE, specious "requirements" (is more a thing in WoW, it means you meet the stated requirements but you're not getting the invite anyway because Tommy Tryhard who could play day one and ride the curve is fully geared and you're still trying to catch up), etc. etc.

They go to the forums, get canards like "well maybe you should have rushed it next time" etc. (basically implying that they should not even play the game unless they change jobs in many cases, WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE PRIORITY HERE FOR TWELVE'S SAKE?!) or "put in the effort" (hard to put in practice when you're fortunate even to get a decent group together, and kinda hard to get gear if you don't get a chance to clear some content in the first place, no?) or similar yadda yadda doo.

They may then try to rely on their friends, but we know for a team game that really doesn't work so great. Getting even four or so people together for a game night was never easy for adults even before video games, and these games generally require at least 2-3 times as many people for challenging content (Main exception being Mythic+ in WoW). Add in XIV's wonky loot system, so if you're trying to get into Savage, you may not have many friends that even CAN help you even if they would be willing and able, because they have statics and have to keep their "loot V" for the week to avoid screwing them out of a chest.

So the result is that people try, but their friends aren't available and the PUGs won't take them except on super stringent competitive standards because generally "why, if Tommy Tryhard is better for the group?" effectively shuts down any criticism. Meanwhile, the standards that you're asked to go meet, under most MMO loot systems, are mostly materially impossible to without clearing the content you can't get into in the first place until you meet.

And then half the time the goal posts get moved when you DO finally meet what's asked.

And the community does nothing about this, in fact they usually make excuses to double down on it.

And then we wonder why people ask for things like "can I have Savage/Heroic gear for easy world content?" or to not need to group for things. They tried and the community shooed them away. Told them in various words that people that work just shouldn't play a MMO.

Should we just accept gaming as a purely solitary hobby? That seems a lousy conclusion to come to. But MMOs are still nicer than the alternatives most of the time (which tend to pretty much all be explicitly competitive games, often with even more obstacles to playing in friendly crowds - e.g. rules against "elo abuse" that can even make it a TOS violation to take your buddy with unless they're naturally close enough in rating), and there aren't many active games with similar gameplay (most new "MMOs" have gone the ARPG/Sandbox routes with a heavy dose of mobile style P2W monetization, far different from the WoW/XIV style gameplay) either.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

ay yo, what is this comments talking about "kys" post that are edited or deleted. can i see it?

The Original Post was Deleted by a Mod, so it is now gone.

[DPZ2]

fixed in place is what makes something an mmo? diablo 4 is an MMO and even sacrifice some core diablo things for it.

So, every dungeon instance is exactly the same? You can team up with more than 3 other individuals for a dungeon? The 'story' isn't repetitive after the first time you complete it? It becomes brand new when you switch from druid to necromancer?

The last time I read anything from the Director of Diablo IV, they said ""Our goal has always been to incorporate elements from shared world games without the game ever feeling like it’s veering into massively multiplayer territory. ... To be clear, this is a philosophy rather than a tech limitation. We find that the game stops feeling like Diablo and the world feels less dangerous when you see other players too often or in too high numbers."

So, they threw that philosophy away and started up the Diablo equivalent of World of Warcraft?

[Renathras]

how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

Pretty sure this isn't even remotely close to true, lol

Also, I've never met a Diablo game I actually liked (2 was the only one close to being vaguely enjoyable), so I can't imagine anyone who would actually think this...but here it is, I suppose.

[MagusMirel]

how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

Because SE listend to the majority of hardcore casuals which are lazy af and don't want to put any effort into something.
That's the mindset of the modern "gamer" now. They are the reason why this game goes downhill. But SE want's money and so they continue to cater the majority as long as possible.
This Game could have been so good, but unfortunately it's getting ruined by people who don't know how to play this game.
They don't know what's good and important for an MMORPG and they also can't handle when people criticize them, that's why they want Solo Content.

[Avatre]

Pretty sure this isn't even remotely close to true, lol

Also, I've never met a Diablo game I actually liked (2 was the only one close to being vaguely enjoyable), so I can't imagine anyone who would actually think this...but here it is, I suppose.

I played a few hours of the Beta yesterday, and the over world(since there are caves/cellars/catacombs you change maps to) felt similar to XIV in that you would see the odd person here and there while running around doing your quests. Otherwise....definitely didn't feel like a MMO imo.