The current state of the "MMORPG" FFXIV is unsustainable. Here's why

[raelgun]

Ah yes, the HW raids that even the developers admitted they overtuned, but it was the players' fault for not being good enough.

Overtuned for non raiders yes, that is the issue.

And yes it was players not being good enough considering people still cleared it.

The raid was tuned under the premise people got better at the game.

There was still too many people who actually struggled playing the job changes in HW, never mind the content it self.

[raelgun]

Funny, I made a thread exactly about that just 2 weeks ago, so in a way I actually agree with that. But you're missing my point here, I'm just pointing out the irony of the previous poster.

But trade blame all you want, call other casual and yourself hardcore if it makes you feel better. But at the end of the day a casual and a hardcore player are just players all the same. Unless you believe hardcore pay an additional tax that make them a more valuable customers? At the end of the day numbers is what matter. The Alex almost killed their raiding community, and crafting in 3.0 was so covulunted that only the most "hardcore" crafter would even try to understand and pursuit it. Again, number talk, and statistic is the only thing matter, not the gazillion spin up people can come up to convince themselves by mental gymnastics.


I will say Yoshi and SE should always make the game they want to make, and I will never ask them to make a game that "suit" me. As a customer, I look at their offering and decide for myself "yes, this is for me, so here is my money". If one day that stop being the case, I just leave and take my money elsewhere, as simple as that. I believe the dev should always make the game they want to make, not the game each different players want. A developer that tries to please everyone will end up pleasing none. People like you are the living example of that.

I enjoy the game not because Yoshi is making FF14 tailor to me, it's merely a happy coincidence that his vision and my taste align.

You just happen to feed into my point, you are happy with what the game has become from the changes made in the past to get it to this point and argueing back when people state something different to your tastes.

So perhaps just accept that people are voicing out changes to be made as the current changes made are not good enough, and if they change it tough it up.

What you are saying is, instead of voicing a complaint to enact a change, is to take away the voice, go somewhere else so players like you can enjoy the game as is and let it stay like this?

Thats not how this works, hopefully enough feedback gets sent about the current distain about the current situation so another change is made.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Heres the thing thats important for you to understand, people were trying to raid, but werent raiders at all.

Even now, the amount of people that backlash over raid prep, getting gear outside raids, getting food buffs, potions and practicing their classes to fine tune it more is minimal, not only that people dont do anythign to their UIs to fine tune that either.

The amount of people that try to practice their jobs/classes and UI middle of raiding is way too much.

This is the issue, its the non raiders trying it, just because a lot of people who are non raiders did little to no raid prep was the biggest issue, its still an issue today.

No one was complaining about raid prep back in coil. We were just doing the content. And what do you mean non raiders were doing raid content.... That makes them raiders lol.....



I was casual as hell back then and I still completed all of the coils.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I can queue up LFR in WoW at 2am and find 20 other people, and thats content people really much do once a week for gear.

All i hear is excuses for dead content

doesnt like WoW have more players than FFXIV anyway? I know they dont release their sub numbers but I always assumed that even during its low point in Shadowbringersland they still managed to retain a good chunk of players more than FFXIV.

[NanaWiloh]

FF14 hardocre player: I am hardcore!!!
Everquest p99: *chuckles* Ya, you keep lying to yourself.
FF11: *nods in silent agreemnet*

[KhudusQestir]

This is such a weird post when the general consensus I've run into on different social media platforms seems to be that the devs have completely forgotten about casuals and only cater to raiders.

Can you elaborate more on how they're catering to raiders? You're the only person I've seen to say that so I find that weird.
(Or I guess maybe someone else since I have high doubts of a reply from this person)

Not at all. I'm just pointing out that a comment like yours of "bad" is entirely your own personal subjective opinion, not any magical objective fact, and that it conflicts with the overwhelming majority of the actual playerbase's opinion. The closest thing any of us can come to claiming an objective "fact" here would be discussing the main target audience as casual gamers, which there is a veritable mountain of support to show.

People like me aren't "afraid" of change; we just don't want to see a game that hundreds of thousands of people really enjoy get ruined for all of us because a select few elitists want the game to cater to them instead.

That's a bold claim considering there are popular streamers and many many players who are growing old and tired of the game, leaning on taking a break or quitting for good while another side of players who feel the same are speaking out. Have you notice the amount of likes given to those who agree that the game is growing dull and catering too strong to casuals? If you're not afraid of change, why are you against people asking for more change?

Complaining also got us HW raids, which gutted the raid community and basically killed the raid scene for almost 2 full years.

I'm confused about how this is relevant. Wasn't HW raids like over 10 years ago while SE goal was to fix 1.0, make ARR long-lasting for an MMO and have HW be an expansion that offers new content? HW raids were a failure but they made better raids after. What does this prove? Why is this even a relevant argument for what's going on now? This feels like digging.

doesnt like WoW have more players than FFXIV anyway? I know they dont release their sub numbers but I always assumed that even during its low point in Shadowbringersland they still managed to retain a good chunk of players more than FFXIV.

This was a quick google search but considering the amount of people who are pissed at Blizzard. . . I find that hard to believe but idc and am willing to be proven wrong. I do know a lot are upset with FFXIV and going back to WoW but not something I hear or read about very often.

[Atelier-Bagur]

This was a quick google search but considering the amount of people who are pissed at Blizzard. . . I find that hard to believe but idc and am willing to be proven wrong. I do know a lot are upset with FFXIV and going back to WoW but not something I hear or read about very often.

Yeah I was just basing it off the fact that WoW has been ingrained in the mmo genre for so long that it cant ever be topped in terms of playerbase because so many people are dedicated to it. Its only been until recently that people started seeing FFXIV as this big competitor to it due to the jabs taken at Blizzard during the Shadowlands and Lawsuit fiasco being their lowest point. But FFXIV has never been a game that strived to be better than WoW or bigger than other games, just mostly catering to the casual audience and doing its own thing with its retention through avoiding game system burnout that most other MMOs tend to do in order to try to retain their players.

[KhudusQestir]

Funny, I made a thread exactly about that just 2 weeks ago, so in a way I actually agree with that. But you're missing my point here, I'm just pointing out the irony of the previous poster.

But trade blame all you want, call other casual and yourself hardcore if it makes you feel better. But at the end of the day a casual and a hardcore player are just players all the same. Unless you believe hardcore pay an additional tax that make them a more valuable customers? At the end of the day numbers is what matter. The Alex almost killed their raiding community, and crafting in 3.0 was so covulunted that only the most "hardcore" crafter would even try to understand and pursuit it. Again, number talk, and statistic is the only thing matter, not the gazillion spin up people can come up to convince themselves by mental gymnastics.


I will say Yoshi and SE should always make the game they want to make, and I will never ask them to make a game that "suit" me. As a customer, I look at their offering and decide for myself "yes, this is for me, so here is my money". If one day that stop being the case, I just leave and take my money elsewhere, as simple as that. I believe the dev should always make the game they want to make, not the game each different players want. A developer that tries to please everyone will end up pleasing none. People like you are the living example of that.

I enjoy the game not because Yoshi is making FF14 tailor to me, it's merely a happy coincidence that his vision and my taste align.

I'm very happy you find the game to fit your needs. Although I think it's a bit selfish to brush everyone's feelings off who wants to express their feelings about a game they love.
You also realize Yoshi has asked players to express how they feel about the game and any content within the game so he can do his best to fit as many players' needs to thank the players and help as many as he can to enjoy the game, right?

Yeah I was just basing it off the fact that WoW has been ingrained in the mmo genre for so long that it cant ever be topped in terms of playerbase because so many people are dedicated to it. Its only been until recently that people started seeing FFXIV as this big competitor to it due to the jabs taken at Blizzard during the Shadowlands and Lawsuit fiasco being their lowest point. But FFXIV has never been a game that strived to be better than WoW or bigger than other games, just mostly catering to the casual audience and doing its own thing with its retention through avoiding game system burnout that most other MMOs tend to do in order to try to retain their players.

Ya, I feel SE is not worried about losing players and that is why they told players to feel free to play other games and come back to FF later. I fully agree that I don't think SE is trying to compete, just simply doing their own thing and honestly I respect that.

[Ath192]

Ya, I feel SE is not worried about losing players and that is why they told players to feel free to play other games and come back to FF later. I fully agree that I don't think SE is trying to compete, just simply doing their own thing and honestly I respect that.

There's nothing to respect about this. It's not a sound business decision because obviously larger populations bring more money and it also doesn't respect the players who are fans and pay for the content year round. What it does succeed in though, is creating a temporary stream of new players that will treat it as a disposable game and do a one and done run. Hardly long term potential here.

The game will age, you know who might stay with it? loyal fans if they feel like the devs really care about them.

[Raven2014]

You just happen to feed into my point, you are happy with what the game has become from the changes made in the past to get it to this point and argueing back when people state something different to your tastes.

Sure, but are you also missing the main point I'm making: if you change the game because one side is unhappy, you're just making the happy people unhappy. To be fair, I have no issue with people staking their desire, the issue have always been the way it is done. I don't fault you for wanting to ask more of what you want, I just don't like people have to look down (on the casual) to make their point. In case you miss the obvious, that's why I kept asking what make the hardcore player more valuable then a casual players?

I am someone who run and clear savage/ultimate. Does that make me a hardcore player? I am also someone who enjoy running the new alliance raids and touring around other content with no commitment ... does that make me a casual player? That's why I said those labels are fairly meaningless to me. I enjoy the game for what it's offering, regardless of how people want to call those offering. What does that make me? I can tell you right now, if SE strip and remove savage/ultimate from the game ... they'll lose me as a customer. But at the same time, if they focus hard on the raiding content at the expense of the "casual" content, then they will also lose me as a customer. I played WoW and enjoyed it, and I know it will always be an option if I've want that experience again, but I don't need a WoW clone in this game.


FF14 is like a full course meal or buffet that focus on variety. I'm simply getting the most from it because I enjoy all the difference and contrast flavors, rather commit into one or two specific dishes. If you are someone who can only enjoy one specific type of food, you should never waste your money and time on a buffet, but should go to a specialty restaurant.