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  1. #1
    Player
    ICountFrom0's Avatar
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    Mar 2019
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    1,526
    Character
    Zedlizvez Mikasch
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    There's one solution, it has a few parts, and your not going to like it.

    1. Mandatory unlock. Either lock alliance roulette at completion of an expansion until the raids are unlocked, or automatically unlock all raids at that point (but don't complete the quests, let folks do the quests when they want them, latter).
    2. Mandatory Ilvl. Alliance roulette has to require the ilvl of the highest dungeon possible at all times.

    Without both it'll still be possible to force folks into crystal tower.

    Why care? Because every time somebody forces crystal tower, that's one or two parties of people that might be doing what alliance roulette was meant for, to get people unstuck who need to do alliance raids. Without people doing the cheese, crystal tower raids will show up more often due to there just being more players at that level range, and that's okay, it'll at least not be 8 to 12 hours in que waiting for a raid to happen in PF. I've seen coils go faster in PF.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ICountFrom0 View Post
    There's one solution, it has a few parts, and your not going to like it.

    1. Mandatory unlock. Either lock alliance roulette at completion of an expansion until the raids are unlocked, or automatically unlock all raids at that point (but don't complete the quests, let folks do the quests when they want them, latter).
    2. Mandatory Ilvl. Alliance roulette has to require the ilvl of the highest dungeon possible at all times.

    Without both it'll still be possible to force folks into crystal tower.

    Why care? Because every time somebody forces crystal tower, that's one or two parties of people that might be doing what alliance roulette was meant for, to get people unstuck who need to do alliance raids. Without people doing the cheese, crystal tower raids will show up more often due to there just being more players at that level range, and that's okay, it'll at least not be 8 to 12 hours in que waiting for a raid to happen in PF. I've seen coils go faster in PF.
    Mandatory unlock is a no go. You would have to play through 14, soon to be 15 different Alliance raids (with massive queue times because so few can run the roulette) before you yourself get the option to run the roulette.

    The problem with no. 2 is that would prevent people from queuing up for Alliance Roulette on alternate jobs.
    If you've unlocked Euphrosyne, well now you can only queue for Alliance Roulette with an ilvl of 595. So if you cleared the MSQ on tank, but want to run Euphrosyne on a dps for shorter queues, tough.
    If you have any jobs below 90, or a 90 job that isn't fully geared, the entire roulette is locked off for them, just like Expert roulette.
    If you have no level 90 jobs geared to ilvl 595, then you can't run the roulette for tomes in order to gear up to get ilvl 595.

    Both of your suggestions together relegate Alliance Raid roulette to the same status as Expert roulette only those who are up to date on everything, on their most geared jobs, can run it.
    All of these complications limit the number of players eligible to queue for the roulette, in turn extending queue times for all alliance raids. Which completely defeats the point of the roulette, to fill queues for those running the raids for the first time.

    The only way around this would be some kind of dynamic ilvl restriction. Where it adjusts the ilvl requirement for the level of the job you're on, set to the lowest ilvl of that particular tier, with an aditional check that you've unlocked that tier.
    So if you're level 90, it requires an ilvl of 565 (ilvl of Aglaia) and if you're level 70, it requires an ilvl of 305 (ilvl of Rabanastre). But if you're level 70 and you haven't yet unlocked Rabanastre, then it requires ilvl 235 (Dun Scaithe)

    The question is, how complicated would this be for them to implement, and, is it worth it?
    When players are queuing up on legit level <60 jobs anyway, ilvl cheesing doesn't have any impact. It's a problem, but it probably doesn't have the level of impact people seem to think it does. Even if this was fixed, you'd still get CT raids the vast majority of the time anyway.
    (0)
    Last edited by Seraphor; 03-04-2023 at 08:55 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    ICountFrom0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    1,526
    Character
    Zedlizvez Mikasch
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    Mandatory unlock is a no go. You would have to play through 14, soon to be 15 different Alliance raids (with massive queue times because so few can run the roulette) before you yourself get the option to run the roulette.

    The problem with no. 2 is that would prevent people from queuing up for Alliance Roulette on alternate jobs.
    If you've unlocked Euphrosyne, well now you can only queue for Alliance Roulette with an ilvl of 595. So if you cleared the MSQ on tank, but want to run Euphrosyne on a dps for shorter queues, tough.
    If you have any jobs below 90, or a 90 job that isn't fully geared, the entire roulette is locked off for them, just like Expert roulette.
    If you have no level 90 jobs geared to ilvl 595, then you can't run the roulette for tomes in order to gear up to get ilvl 595.

    Both of your suggestions together relegate Alliance Raid roulette to the same status as Expert roulette only those who are up to date on everything, on their most geared jobs, can run it.
    All of these complications limit the number of players eligible to queue for the roulette, in turn extending queue times for all alliance raids. Which completely defeats the point of the roulette, to fill queues for those running the raids for the first time.
    Nope, not at all what I said.

    I don't know if you intentionally misunderstood it, or are just pretending to.

    If it automatically unlocks the dungeons, your not stuck by them not unlocking.

    Having it update with the last quest of each expansion means that it's always at the right ilvl for you.

    The situation you describe is just not possible and absolutely not what I described.

    If your level 50, about to go into heavensward, boom, CT unlocks, alliance raid is only CR.
    If your level 60 about to go into stormblood, the shadows alliance raids unlock, giving you 6 possibilities, that you have to have the right ilvl for, and that's what the alliance raid can put you into, no more, no less.
    If your level 70, about to go into shadowbringers, the ivalace raids unlock themselves, giving you 9 possible dungeons, you que, you can end up in any of those 9.
    If your level 80, about to go into endwalker, the nier raids unlock themselves, giving you 12 possible dungeons, you que, and you could end up in any of those 12.

    I said nothing about requiring you to unlock nier before you could do alliance raid when your level 50. This is not "expert but alliance". If anything it's the 50, 60, 70, 80 roulette style, adaptively updating with each expansion you reach and containing what you unlocked. Notice that if you don't unlock and run halatili hard, you can sill run 50, 60, 70 roulette? If you do unlock it but you haven't run it, you can still run the roulette. Same coding is all that's needed for my idea, plus the automatic, INSTANT unlock of the dungeons so they can't be avoided.

    Using the coding of 50/60/70 roulette even solves the problem of unleveled side classes wanting to use it to level. So no, the code exists, it works just fine in the other place it's used.
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