SE, no effort anywhere lately.

[Jojoya]

I agree with most of what you say, but a clear example, unfortunately, and as much as people want to hate it, WoW. That game has been around since 2004 or so and it still brought huge crowds for Dragon Flight. Sure it's had its failures but it does seem they experiment more than SE does.

I'm not a WoW player, but I know plenty. But it is an example regardless.

The game certainly doesn't feel like it's in maint mode.

WoW does experiment more - and those experiments led to the player base dropping to 10% of what it had been at the game's pinnacle. That's a double-edged sword and Blizzard ended up cutting itself far too many times. It shouldn't be surprising that some other games prefer to stick to a formula that worked for them.

Dragonflight has been getting some great feedback at least. Good for Blizzard after a couple of major expansion failures.

But I don't feel like FFXIV is in maintenance mode either. YoshiP has brought up some of the problems the game has after a decade and hinted at changes that will be coming in 7.0 and beyond. The 6.x series very much is downtime in preparation for the transition and we were warned in advance what to expect. We'll have to wait for 7.0 to see if they nail the changes needed, or if it will truly end up with the downward spiral that WoW went through after its first 6 years.

For now I'm still very happy here and haven't heard enough out of Dragonflight to tempt me to go back to WoW (especially when members of my Marilith FC quit Dragonflight after 6-8 weeks mainly because of community toxicity but also because they started feeling bored after reaching max level). It could very much be a matter of personal preference. Some enjoy WoW more, some enjoy FFXIV more. That's not only perfectly fine, it's healthy for the gaming industry in general.

People usually stay, because they make bonds in the game. I know many people, who are legit Limsa AFKers, because they dont feel enjoyement with the game alone, but they enjoy spending their time talking with others. Could they spend less money and do that in games like VRChat? 100%. But they are used to FF style and most of em dont wanna change themselfs.

Other players are taking break. PF on Chaos datacentre is DEAD. Nothing happening.

"Game developers trying to shake up a game's design formula risk alienating the long time players" - not true. Long time players are mad that they dont risk anymore. Or they risk (Islands and Crtieon), but not in engaging way.

I dunno. It feels like you are just madge that others dares to speak, that they dont find current style of game... engaging.

I'm not mad at all. Different players like different things.

But I do like specifics. I do like to see counter examples of where other games have or are doing things better. Go into the Housing subforum where I talk about the problems with the FFXIV housing system and you'll frequently see me bring up RIFT Dimensions. I know housing in this game can be better because RIFT was doing it better almost a decade ago.

And I really dislike the same players flooding the forum with the same complaints over and over and over again but not doing anything to improve their situation. As someone else said earlier, it genuinely is not healthy to get stuck in that negative mind set.

If you cannot also find something positive to say about the current state of a game you're playing, you are better off finding a different game to play instead of paying just for the sake of forum access so you can continue to deepdive into the negativity.

I got to that point in WoW myself back at the end of Legion. So as I was making the break once and for all from the game, I set up parental controls and turned off the ability to post in the WoW forums. That made it much easier to walk away from a game that had changed so much I could no longer enjoy it.

But it is true that shaking up a game's formula will alienate long time players. If all long time players want change, then WoW wouldn't have dropped from 12 million subscribers at its height in Wrath down to 1-2 million subscribers in Shadowlands. Nor could the game attract enough new players with those changes to offset the losses of the long time players.

If I'm bored with what one of my current games offers and want something new, I go looking for a new game. That makes far more sense than expecting my current game to change.

[Leifei]

Another round of undyable outfits in the Mogstation that we have to pay for
Lackluster patch content. You know it's bad when people are excited for deep dungeons because there's nothing else to do. Crit & variant dungeons were a flop. Island Sanctuary is still a 5 minute get in, get out content when you consider how many people just use the Discord for workshop recs.
Recycles /eat emotes for the past couple events, new /dance emote doesn't even loop.

This game isn't in maint. mode but it sure feels like it is.

If you're just venting, that's fine, but your wording isn't going to attract dev team attention. You make valid points about the cons of recent content. However, putting it more in the form of constructive criticism instead of saying they aren't working hard will increase your chances of dev attention I assure you.

[SaltyDaddy]

So then maybe the problem is that you have played this game long enough to get burned out and be in need of something different (but not too different). WoW has changed enough in the past 6 years or so that it probably doesn't feel much like the game a lot of us left because we started to hate it. It will feel fresh and new where FFXIV can't.

Let's hope it doesn't disappoint.

Well, yeah. Ofc. But its different when I want to engage with content, but even new one is boring. I was the person who dedicated myself to do 130 runs of Diamond extreme for mount, even when 50 + wait would be enough for mount), but I dont even see current extremes as fun and never farmed them. I dont want to spend money on another game, but I would need to. Spending 2 subs at once (because I have house in FF I like and doing ultimates with static I dont want to leave) can be felt. And I bet there is more people like me, who would like to play more games, but are frustrated by its challenges, if you know what I mean. And also, if I join wow, I would like to engage with engame and there is 6.4 soon. I dont know how people have time to raid in WoW and FF at the same time. They dont go to work? :/

If you're just venting, that's fine, but your wording isn't going to attract dev team attention. You make valid points about the cons of recent content. However, putting it more in the form of constructive criticism instead of saying they aren't working hard will increase your chances of dev attention I assure you.

Chances are so low anyway, that it doesnt mean anthing for most posters. They just want to know how others feel.

[sharknado]

You realize you broke down my entire wall of text to try and tell me why I'm wrong for having fun?

That wasn't the aim of my posts. I don't treat any of the both games as good/best/only one viable. You had some good takes I agree with and few which I consider incorrect (which doesn't affect that you can play other games and have fun with that).

The fact is FF14 is no longer enjoyable for me and hasn't been for a long while, breaks or not, but other games are.

Did you ever? Looking at your post some of your takes indicate you love WoW and want that WoW is good so you play only WoW thus you want FF14 to be like WoW when you aren't playing WoW. After sproutbringer it was common on WoW forums to have FFing requests for WoW, then we got some WoW players wanting to WoWify FF14.

Those are two completelly differen't games and I doubt hardcore FF or WoW player will be able to play the other one and have fun over the long run - and that's completelly separate from current problems both game face on their own.

[Stormpeaks]

WoW does experiment more - and those experiments led to the player base dropping to 10% of what it had been at the game's pinnacle. That's a double-edged sword and Blizzard ended up cutting itself far too many times. It shouldn't be surprising that some other games prefer to stick to a formula that worked for them.

Dragonflight has been getting some great feedback at least. Good for Blizzard after a couple of major expansion failures.

But I don't feel like FFXIV is in maintenance mode either. YoshiP has brought up some of the problems the game has after a decade and hinted at changes that will be coming in 7.0 and beyond. The 6.x series very much is downtime in preparation for the transition. We'll have to wait for 7.0 to see if they nail the changes needed, or if it will truly end up with the downward spiral that WoW went through after its first 6 years.

For now I'm still very happy here and haven't heard enough out of Dragonflight to tempt me to go back to WoW (especially when members of my Marilith FC quit Dragonflight after 6-8 weeks mainly because of community toxicity but also because they started feeling bored after reaching max level). It could very much be a matter of personal preference. Some enjoy WoW more, some enjoy FFXIV more. That's not only perfectly fine, it's healthy for the gaming industry in general.

7.0 is literally next year, that means what we have now and for the past AT LEAST 9 months is basically maintenance mode with minimal content, so much for a "working" formula

[SaltyDaddy]

Those are two completelly differen't games and I doubt hardcore FF or WoW player will be able to play the other one and have fun over the long run - and that's completelly separate from current problems both game face on their own.

But thats the point. Make a MMO with best of moth and you have MMO killer. Something for everyone. True internet experience. Both are just running in its already made rails, instead of getting tires and learn how to turn around.

or if it will truly end up with the downward spiral that WoW went through after its first 6 years.

Cataclysm was great. MoP was very fun, but started bit too daily grindy. WoD was amazing... if it was 1 year expansion. I dont think Wotlk was the best and everything after was worse. Thats just pink nostalgia glassess.

[Ath192]

I dunno. It feels like you are just madge that others dares to speak, that they dont find current style of game... engaging.

And it's not. Its accessible, its streamlined, its easy. And some of that can be good but it's absolutely stale when that's 95% of it. It needs some spice and personality, Heck. Even if the game takes a turn I dislike and end up hating it I would prefer that than more of the same.

It feels like a Sensory Deprivation Tank. And I think its because the game avoids so hard to give any negative feelings to its playerbase. The problem is that to know happiness, you need to know anger and to know joy, you need to know sadness. Things just don't work when it's all flowers and rainbows.

Even the MSQ suffers from this. Like Everyone just keeps coming back. There's no depth to the sacrifice they make, they're just gonna appear back anyways.

I loved we lost a fight in stormblood. Heavensward had some noticeable sacrifices. But ever since then? Nothing.

Its funny how the game started becoming stale right after that too. It was like there was this shift to no bad or hard things again - ever. This bled into the gameplay as well, which is the biggest issue imo.

[Nizzi]

Can't stress the healers and tanks, bland jobs and faceroll dungeons!

I've said it before and I will say it again. This is by far the biggest problem facing FFXIV and its long term longevity. The core of the game is the combat, and SE tries their hardest to ignore that and focus on everything else; even making no mention of the gameplay in promotional advertisements and instead focusing on the "glam" or "decorating" aspects of the game.

It is a travesty that the game functionally has more jobs on paper than it did in Heavensward or Stormblood, but in reality it has less. You get 2 "styles" of tanks, GNB clone or WAR clone, 1 style of healer - glarebot, every DPS job being a bursting builder spender that isn't BLM, etc. SE's solution of "it's time to try harder content!" doesn't work at all because a majority of the game is not harder content, right now the only current "hard" content I can do is the Savage tier which I cleared and farmed months ago, or DSR/TOP which I'm currently progging.

Even then though, that doesn't hide the fact how painfully boring 99% of the jobs have become in all levels of content. There's nothing fun about running easy content on homogenized slop jobs that all play the same and don't give me a different way to approach the content. I get nothing different out of doing any of the new Alliance raids on WHM vs SCH, SAM vs RPR, etc. Functionally, the only job that offers a different gameplay experience anymore is Black Mage - and that isn't a good thing. Casual content should be something fun and enjoyable that I can swap to stuff I'm not proficient on and have fun with how different it is to the jobs/roles I normally play, but it's not that at all and because of that, I have no reason to do it.

No matter how disingenuous people want to be, asking questions like "have you gotten 2000 S rank hunts killed yet?? haven't done everything yet then huh??" isn't a solution for the fact that there's nothing to do. There's nothing to do because SE is fine with abandoning old content and not caring about how jobs feel to play outside of level 90 endgame content, and then have also abandoned the desire to care about putting fun first. If the game was fun at all levels, there would be a ton to do. Focusing on having engagement come from harder encounters and not jobs, and then having only a small amount of engaging encounters per expansion is a very bizarre design choice considering that the grand majority of the content in this game is casual, easy mode stuff that you should be able to pick up and have fun with.

I'm almost done progging DSR with my static and then I'll be moving onto TOP after a short break and hopefully clearing before or during 6.4. It's funny that once I've cleared the last tier in 6.4, I will have literally nothing to do anymore and thus there will be literally no reason for me to be subbed at all until 7.0, which I won't be coming back for if healers are still the same 1 button spamming slop.

[R041]

If you're just venting, that's fine, but your wording isn't going to attract dev team attention.

Nothing has ever attracted dev team attention unless it actually pulls outside media attention, so we lash out.

[SaltyDaddy]

It feels like a Sensory Deprivation Tank. And I think its because the game avoids so hard to give any negative feelings to its playerbase. The problem is that to know happiness, you need to know anger and to know joy, you need to know sadness. Things just don't work when it's all flowers and rainbows.

It feels like the point, that the Endwalker story was trying to tell us... didnt reached to devs itself