What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[DevonEllwood]

I wasn't planning on posting this anymore, but the hrothgar (I think) who asked was nice and I already had this typed and saved so...might as well. this is in response to "is there anything you like about endwalker" Ignore name misspellings and typos, I am just not going to proofread. Or don't ignore them, I am not your parental figure.

I don't know if I am one of the guys you are referring to, but I'll answer anyway.

There's some stuff I like in endwalker. It's just that I feel the rest was terrible enough to bring it down to "hates endwalker". What was good, was really good and it just contributes to the frustration as I feel that endwalker "almost had it".
Sharlyan, was completely forgettable to me and frustrating in parts. I don't understand where they decided that this closed off part of the world had people from around the world, sent out assassins to safeguard secrets, but behaved more like Hogwarts. I had high hopes for the place and I just did not enjoy it. I like Thavnir even if the information felt rushed. Anxiety elephant is great, and the 2.0 moments were the highlight. His reflection on his beliefs with the villagers was a good slow moment that had impact. His moment with the baby only to have his confidence in his beliefs completely shatter was amazing. I did not mind Estenien saving the day here as much as some, even though I can understand why they didn't like it.

Enough has been said about Garlemald that I don't need to add to it. My major grievances are most of the moon, Ultima Thule, and Elpis. I am in the minority, but I hated Elpis. I'll use it to segue into your statement "Endwalker was popular and a success". I'm just going to be blunt, but I have been working in a specific environment that has brought my attention that people's comprehension levels are absolutely abysmal and it's embarrassing. People do not read. People do not have patience. People do not give an f-bomber plane about anything beyond surface level. People just want their hand held because it's easier.
Elpis was a frustrating mess for me for the bad dialogue and the pointlessness of conversations. To use an example, the scene where Hades is teaching the critter to fly and Hythlo would not shut up. Look, hes a great person. Look at him helping! I am not joking in that Elpis helped people realize that Hades wasn't always a big meanie pants. I mean, I thought that was obvious in Shadowbringers. That he was a normal person until 12k years of suffering. What's sad is the developers knew this. This is the reason for all the weird dialogue going on in Elpis. Even outside of Elpis we are constantly getting information regurgitated at us in this game and it's exhausting.
I'm going to give another example if you are familiar with the movie Cabin in the Woods. I think it was the director who was interviewed and asked if there was going to be a sequel. He just asked, "did you even watch the movie". Comprehension level of a goat. And even the people say there can be prequels. No there can't. Because the prequel would literally be every other horror movie under the sun. Because that is the point of the movie.
I'm not going to say my comprehension levels are great. People liked endwalker because they saw a pretty game with great music and a neat story. They're not going to look into it much more than that. I don't need my hand held for the story, I don't need it held for the lore, and I don't want it held for the combat.

Yet, the worst part of Endwalker is Yoshida's attitude toward it. Him not knowing people cared about the lore so much. I'm sorry, but he doesn't have an excuse to not understand. Does he just forget about all the lore QandA? Is the game not marketed for its story? Do you not have lore books? A major complaint people had about WoW was the lore being retconned. This and Yoshida clearly wanting to be done with the story so he can "move on" to other stories.

I'm still here because I still have hope that Endwalker was a fluke. I enjoy playing this game with my friends and the other content it has to offer, just not the story.

[FlatLined]

Yet, the worst part of Endwalker is Yoshida's attitude toward it. Him not knowing people cared about the lore so much. I'm sorry, but he doesn't have an excuse to not understand. Does he just forget about all the lore QandA? Is the game not marketed for its story? Do you not have lore books? A major complaint people had about WoW was the lore being retconned. This and Yoshida clearly wanting to be done with the story so he can "move on" to other stories.
.

To this day I still cant wrap my mind around this statement. It makes him look so out of touch.

[kpxmanifesto]

To this day I still cant wrap my mind around this statement. It makes him look so out of touch.

Yeah it's like he's checked out of FFXIV, and the game isn't that important to him anymore.

[Absurdity]

Yeah it's like he's checked out of FFXIV, and the game isn't that important to him anymore.

Maybe, but it could also simply be a case of priorities.

His focus is entirely on 16 and why wouldn't it be? It's a singleplayer mainline FF game, there isn't going to be a "we'll do better next expansion", it's either a hit on release or a disappointing meh forever.
14 is just going to keep trucking along anyway, people have already shown that they gladly eat up mediocrity when it comes to this game and defend it like it's their child.

[Striker44]

Maybe, but it could also simply be a case of priorities.

His focus is entirely on 16 and why wouldn't it be? It's a singleplayer mainline FF game, there isn't going to be a "we'll do better next expansion", it's either a hit on release or a disappointing meh forever.
14 is just going to keep trucking along anyway, people have already shown that they gladly eat up mediocrity when it comes to this game and defend it like it's their child.

Perhaps because "mediocrity" is simply your opinion and their own opinion is that it's excellent...

There's also a point in there somewhere about people playing a video game and expecting it to be the next Lord of the Rings in terms of quality. I don't expect an absolute masterpiece when I play a video game, so I'm very much satisfied and have a lot of fun playing something that's simply very good. A common thread I seem to find running through the complaints are people taking a video game way too seriously imo.

[Melorie]

There's also a point in there somewhere about people playing a video game and expecting it to be the next Lord of the Rings in terms of quality. I don't expect an absolute masterpiece when I play a video game, so I'm very much satisfied and have a lot of fun playing something that's simply very good. A common thread I seem to find running through the complaints are people taking a video game way too seriously imo.

Uh. Disco Elysium, Planescape Torment, Night in the Woods, Outer Wilds, Pathologic 2, Spiritfarer, and I would say even Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Divinity II, Pillars of Eternity, Pentiment, etc, are all video-games with amazing stories, better than some books I've read. Acting like you can't criticize the plot of something because it is a "game" is such a narrow vision of what games can offer. This whole "you shouldn't take games seriously" are simply excuses to not think critically about stuff, which if it works for you... Wonderful, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be taken seriously at all. They're pieces of art and entertainment with a lot of possibilities. I'm sorry for you if you're not able to see this, you're honestly missing out.

Like, people have dedicated hours and hours to read the story, if you start the game now it'll take you MONTHS to catch up with the current story if you decide to read it and you can't think critically of this? The expansion biggest selling point is literally the story and you can't... take it seriously? LOL I'm literally reading a biggest amount of text than the entire Wheel of Time series combined and I should not think too much because it's just a game?

As of Endwalker: did I enjoy it? Yeah, but, at the same time, I can't think deeply about it. I have to enjoy it in a very superficial level otherwise the plot holes pop up constantly and I feel like most people find it the most amazing thing ever because they have no baggage. It's like the crowd that only reads Harry Potter and think it's the most amazing fantasy ever, because they haven't even touched Ursula Le K. Guin, Diana Wynne Jones, etc.

[Striker44]

Uh. Disco Elysium, Planescape Torment, Night in the Woods, Outer Wilds, Pathologic 2, Spiritfarer, and I would say even Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Divinity II, Pillars of Eternity, Pentiment, etc, are all video-games with amazing stories, better than some books I've read. Acting like you can't criticize the plot of something because it is a "game" is such a narrow vision of what games can offer. This whole "you shouldn't take games seriously" are simply excuses to not think critically about stuff, which if it works for you... Wonderful, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be taken seriously at all. They're pieces of art and entertainment with a lot of possibilities. I'm sorry for you if you're not able to see this, you're honestly missing out.

Like, people have dedicated hours and hours to read the story, if you start the game now it'll take you MONTHS to catch up with the current story if you decide to read it and you can't think critically of this? The expansion biggest selling point is literally the story and you can't... take it seriously? LOL I'm literally reading a biggest amount of text than the entire Wheel of Time series combined and I should not think too much because it's just a game?

As of Endwalker: did I enjoy it? Yeah, but, at the same time, I can't think deeply about it. I have to enjoy it in a very superficial level otherwise the plot holes pop up constantly and I feel like most people find it the most amazing thing ever because they have no baggage. It's like the crowd that only reads Harry Potter and think it's the most amazing fantasy ever, because they haven't even touched Ursula Le K. Guin, Diana Wynne Jones, etc.

When you reach the point of putting words in someone's mouth in an attempt to have an argument, you only serve to admit that you have none. Nowhere did I say someone can't take a video game story "seriously" - I said there's such a thing as expecting a masterpiece when there's no practical or realistic reason to expect one. Personally, I would put FFXIV's story (EW included) right up there with Dragon Age, Homeworld, and the like. I think the story is amazing, and it's obvious why it's a selling point for the game. Again, though - "amazing" for a video game doesn't mean "one of the greatest works of lore and literature ever produced by humanity." When you set such unrealistic expectations, the only natural end result is disappointment.

[PeaTearGriffin]

To this day I still cant wrap my mind around this statement. It makes him look so out of touch.

Yeah it's like he's checked out of FFXIV, and the game isn't that important to him anymore.

What exactly was the statement he made that gave him this reputation?

[Atelier-Bagur]

What exactly was the statement he made that gave him this reputation?

That he was surprised that people cared deeply about the game's lore. Honestly this kinda proves my whole point made in another thread about answering some lore questions in one of the recent live Q&As. Basically the whole thing about him coming up with a reason for why Venat purposefully allowed some of the big Convocation members to escape unsundering like Lahabrea, Emet-Selch and Elidibus etc. That answer felt...half-assed since:

1. It wasnt a detail that was ever brought up in the main story (as far as I'm aware) and

2. Its goes against the entire purpose of sundering. Although we could debate that her reasoning of seemingly leaving those 3 members intact was for the belief of preserving the WoL's timeline as she believes that "us" were the key to solving the dilemma. After all, the WoL explained the events that transpired in his timeline to Venat, Emet and Hythlodeus so the plausibility of her basing her actions on what has already come to pass is warranted. However I still go with the fact that usually with these kind of stories its never too well to try to rationalize a story as long as it feels reasonable grounded but obviously some people dont think so and that in of itself is a whole 'nother debate.

But basically my idea was that Yoshida isnt too wrapped up in the game's story details and its almost always the writing team themselves whom come up with the meat and potatoes of the plot with Yoshida supervising and giving direction and layout to the game's plot. Which makes sense for his position. So him giving such a out of the blue answer like Venat letting them go, feels so out of the left field. Well...at least for me it does.

[Boblawblah]

That he was surprised that people cared deeply about the game's lore. Honestly this kinda proves my whole point made in another thread about answering some lore questions in one of the recent live Q&As. Basically the whole thing about him coming up with a reason for why Venat purposefully allowed some of the big Convocation members to escape unsundering like Lahabrea, Emet-Selch and Elidibus etc. That answer felt...half-assed since:

1. It wasnt a detail that was ever brought up in the main story (as far as I'm aware) and

2. Its goes against the entire purpose of sundering. Although we could debate that her reasoning of seemingly leaving those 3 members intact was for the belief of preserving the WoL's timeline as she believes that "us" were the key to solving the dilemma. After all, the WoL explained the events that transpired in his timeline to Venat, Emet and Hythlodeus so the plausibility of her basing her actions on what has already come to pass is warranted. However I still go with the fact that usually with these kind of stories its never too well to try to rationalize a story as long as it feels reasonable grounded but obviously some people dont think so and that in of itself is a whole 'nother debate.

But basically my idea was that Yoshida isnt too wrapped up in the game's story details and its almost always the writing team themselves whom come up with the meat and potatoes of the plot with Yoshida supervising and giving direction and layout to the game's plot. Which makes sense for his position. So him giving such a out of the blue answer like Venat letting them go, feels so out of the left field. Well...at least for me it does.

Do you have a source on that quote?