Balancing issues in PVP

[Mistress_Irika]

Just turn off damage reduction. It'll be more fun, trust me.

6.1 only melees had dr, the old ones from last expansion. It was too easy to kill then, especially if you had max battle high. Melees weren't safe from range classes, and I believe DNC was just about unplayable. Recuperate and Guard was useless if you actually got caught by at least 3 people.

Unless you're trying to personally turn the frontlines maps back to Summoner's Rift or get rid of melees and tanks entirely (excluding DRK, PLD, and NIN) you don't want to go back to having no sort of damage reduction.

[Divinemights]

How do you come even remotely close to a conclusion like that? Veterans are veterans because they know how to play, know how to utilize CC's and know how and when to break them and how to avoid them. Saying they keep veterans in check is a weird thought process to have.

I reach my conclusion based on personal experience on Primal
I am mostly solo on the frontline since Frontline exist (still able to do it post 6.1) and I can tell who is paying attention to DR and who is not prioir to 6.1
I judge my opponent based on their reaction and actual performance instead of the fake numbers on the scoreboard.
My definition of veterans are those skilled is CD management, burst, and situation awareness (buff, debuff, and DR,etc)
They don't need to be high on the scorebord, but these people are cores of a successful random frontline team.
These people are in trouble at 6.1 because now players is able to spend CC without worry about DR.
I do still beleived 6.1 did reduce the skill gap between veterans and normal players due to non-exist of DR.

[Jettinson]

Just turn off damage reduction. It'll be more fun, trust me.

While nobody plays, Rival Wings is the closest you'll get for decent chunk of players deleting each other with a sneeze

[Valence]

You sound a bit too sure of yourself mate.

Diminishing Returns was a feature prior to 4.0 PvP as it used the PvE skills as a basis of combat, along with most other mechanics. The difference is that certain skills had their effects adjusted for PvP (like Shieldbash had 4s stun duration rather than 6s), something they added over time during early PvP as BLM's AOE sleep for 30s... was kind of excessive.

4.0-6.05 there was CC resist like you said for 10s (or 15s with 4.0-5.05 PvP, when selectable traits were a thing). So the most CC you'd take was a Stun -> Silence + Bind for a total of 4-5s, depending on when you played. I don't think it was a nightmare to keep track off though unless you pressed all your buttons as soon as you see a target on your screen to attack.

Short: Yes PvP had that feature from 2.1(where PvP released I think?) to 3.58.

My mistake then, I assumed people were referring to the various damage immunities added to pvp (after a totally DRless pvp) at some point during Stormblood, that we still had in Shadowbringers. Didn't think people were going that far back to HW. I'll definitely admit that I haven't pvped much in HW and this flew way over my head.

[Ransu]

I reach my conclusion based on personal experience on Primal
I am mostly solo on the frontline since Frontline exist (still able to do it post 6.1) and I can tell who is paying attention to DR and who is not prioir to 6.1
I judge my opponent based on their reaction and actual performance instead of the fake numbers on the scoreboard.
My definition of veterans are those skilled is CD management, burst, and situation awareness (buff, debuff, and DR,etc)
They don't need to be high on the scorebord, but these people are cores of a successful random frontline team.
These people are in trouble at 6.1 because now players is able to spend CC without worry about DR.
I do still beleived 6.1 did reduce the skill gap between veterans and normal players due to non-exist of DR.

That is just blatantly false lol.

[Astralrisk]

I mused over this in other threads, and I'd like them to rework those for sure, but at the same time they're here for a good reason and have an actual strategic use, which is shutting down some opponents during their LBs if used properly. The problem being that a lot of LBs are instant and don't last over time, but for those that do, it's the way to go. Now, I do think that some of those LBs like meteodrive, zantetsuken or seiton are plain stupid, agreed.

I think you could make it better with having these LBs be casted. Especially since it would actually allow counter play in some scenarios. Especially since I think with the way some LBs look, it would fit perfectly to have a cast time. Good example is MCH's, when you hit Marksmen's Spite your enemy gets a crosshair on there character as a notification of "your about to get domed" which by the time you see it, it snapshots and your basically owned. If it was casted you could have the crosshair be an indicator of about to be owned and you could counter play it in some way. I don't think it would work with every LB, but a large majority of them would work with it.

[Astralrisk]

While nobody plays, Rival Wings is the closest you'll get for decent chunk of players deleting each other with a sneeze

I think this highlights of the issue that the jobs not having any baseline survivability built into the kits is horrible. Having all of that basically frontloaded into the skills such as Guard/Recup/Purify and barely having anything else to live causes ppl to be incredibly squishy, especially in large scale modes where you have a couple people can sneeze in your general direction and you'll be evaporated. This causes Frontlines to get DR on half the jobs making them incredibly tanky, and now we got the other issue of everyone being incredibly tanky and it eliminates the ability to try and kill someone by yourself. More baseline survivability for every job would make things so much better and less cringe to deal with, and I think having that designed in wouldn't hurt any of the 3 main modes pvp modes at all.

[Valence]

I think you could make it better with having these LBs be casted. Especially since it would actually allow counter play in some scenarios. Especially since I think with the way some LBs look, it would fit perfectly to have a cast time. Good example is MCH's, when you hit Marksmen's Spite your enemy gets a crosshair on there character as a notification of "your about to get domed" which by the time you see it, it snapshots and your basically owned. If it was casted you could have the crosshair be an indicator of about to be owned and you could counter play it in some way. I don't think it would work with every LB, but a large majority of them would work with it.

Spite is fine and is really the least of the worrying ones. I don't like Seiton for how low effort and snowballing it is on top of its range, I don't like zantetsuken because a lot of jobs have very poor or no defense against it (and some also need to AoE to work), and I don't like meteodrive because of its range and it's also borderline broken vs ranged players (or even melees). I don't hate them for being single target in essence.

[Ransu]

I think you could make it better with having these LBs be casted.

No thanks. Old LB's were casted and they did not feel good to use.

[Elfidan]

These LB are definitely better than the previous role ones were. Some of them are still bad though and the fact that some are instant, and some require years of uninterrupted gameplay to get value from is pretty much garbage.