Serious Point Allocation Discussion

[Arcell]

It's not really fair, it seems like PLD much like in D&D needs almost every stat, where as a WAR can stack STR and VIT and maybe some dex and call it a day.

STR : for dmg
VIT : for more HP and less damage taken across the board
DEX : for blocking, accuracy, and parry
MND : Healing magic potency and more damage
PIE : for more MP and Magic Evasion

DEX my affect block rate and accuracy, but it's not enough to be worth putting points into, IMO. With the new Divine Veil, Aegis Boon and Outmaneuver, you can force a good amount of blocks.

PIE is in the same boat. The amount of MP you get is 1 to 1, so it's not worth it for that. You don't really get enough M.Evasion to matter from the (at most) 23 piety.

The real question is:

1st: STR or VIT?

2nd is definitely Mind. More healing magic potency and it enhances your Flatblade combo. No question there.

[Sortis]

DEX my affect block rate and accuracy, but it's not enough to be worth putting points into, IMO. With the new Divine Veil, Aegis Boon and Outmaneuver, you can force a good amount of blocks.

PIE is in the same boat. The amount of MP you get is 1 to 1, so it's not worth it for that. You don't really get enough M.Evasion to matter from the (at most) 23 piety.

The real question is:

1st: STR or VIT?

2nd is definitely Mind. More healing magic potency and it enhances your Flatblade combo. No question there.

The point is though, is dex does increase block rate, and GLA/PLD is the only job in the game that is actually going to even think about going after block rate, casters sure as heck don't care about it. So why even make a stat effect block and why let us allocate stats if there isn't some grand reason to do so. If these stats are just plain better than these stats then why is the point of this system?! To give us some kind of false sense of customization when there is none...thats dumb.

Furthermore the point of my post is to show that PLD is spread much more thin than WAR is. WAR is more successful because they can just balls to the walls go for 2 stats and thats all their job relies on, our job however relies on almost 3 times as many stats. I'm not saying we need to put points in them, but they can increase practically everything they do with 2 stats, we however have to be content with just letting most of our stats go in favor of something more potent, ergo we are spread thin on our needs. What would a world look like if we could increase our damage, MP pool, Block Rate and damage mitigation with MND?

As it stands WAR gets to increase with VIT : damage mitigation, HP pool, and damage all in one stat. VIT helps them hold hate through dmg, take dmg through mitigation, and survive with a high HP pool. STR is just icing on the cake. It's literally everything the job needs. If we could put points in MND to increase everything a PLD needs it would be a better job. That is my 2 cents. I could be wrong, but it seems like if MND was for PLD what VIT is for WAR we may not even be having this discussion.

If we aren't going to use point allocation to make unique builds then take it out of the game, it's pointless. Just give every job 2 stats that increase everything they can possibly do, and boost those stats beyond others every even level, that would go a long way towards making jobs balanced. (IMO)

[Arcell]

The point is though, is dex does increase block rate, and GLA/PLD is the only job in the game that is actually going to even think about going after block rate, casters sure as heck don't care about it. So why even make a stat effect block and why let us allocate stats if there isn't some grand reason to do so. If these stats are just plain better than these stats then why is the point of this system?! To give us some kind of false sense of customization when there is none...thats dumb.

Furthermore the point of my post is to show that PLD is spread much more thin than WAR is. WAR is more successful because they can just balls to the walls go for 2 stats and thats all their job relies on, our job however relies on almost 3 times as many stats. I'm not saying we need to put points in them, but they can increase practically everything they do with 2 stats, we however have to be content with just letting most of our stats go in favor of something more potent, ergo we are spread thin on our needs. What would a world look like if we could increase our damage, MP pool, Block Rate and damage mitigation with MND?

As it stands WAR gets to increase with VIT : damage mitigation, HP pool, and damage all in one stat. VIT helps them hold hate through dmg, take dmg through mitigation, and survive with a high HP pool. STR is just icing on the cake. It's literally everything the job needs. If we could put points in MND to increase everything a PLD needs it would be a better job. That is my 2 cents. I could be wrong, but it seems like if MND was for PLD what VIT is for WAR we may not even be having this discussion.

If we aren't going to use point allocation to make unique builds then take it out of the game, it's pointless. Just give every job 2 stats that increase everything they can possibly do, and boost those stats beyond others every even level, that would go a long way towards making jobs balanced. (IMO)

And my point was that DEX is useless to pour points into because the effect it has on block rate is negligible at best. If you put points into it hoping to see a higher block rate you will be incredibly disappointed, especially against any bosses. If I want higher block rate I'll go with gear, not waste points in my allocation.

With Paladin you can put points strictly into two stats and be just fine. I would go with STR/MND with some HP gear but that's just me. I wouldn't be any worse off for it. WAR can benefit from DEX and PIE as much as PLD would. Parry rate and M.Evasion are great for Warrior, however allocating points into those stats is equally useless for them as it is for Paladin so people don't. In reality Paladin has a single additional stat to consider over Warrior.

Each job essentially DOES have two stats that it focuses on. Useless as it may be, that is how the current system is designed.

[Kiara]

The point is though, is dex does increase block rate, and GLA/PLD is the only job in the game that is actually going to even think about going after block rate, casters sure as heck don't care about it. So why even make a stat effect block and why let us allocate stats if there isn't some grand reason to do so. If these stats are just plain better than these stats then why is the point of this system?! To give us some kind of false sense of customization when there is none...thats dumb.

Furthermore the point of my post is to show that PLD is spread much more thin than WAR is. WAR is more successful because they can just balls to the walls go for 2 stats and thats all their job relies on, our job however relies on almost 3 times as many stats. I'm not saying we need to put points in them, but they can increase practically everything they do with 2 stats, we however have to be content with just letting most of our stats go in favor of something more potent, ergo we are spread thin on our needs. What would a world look like if we could increase our damage, MP pool, Block Rate and damage mitigation with MND?

As it stands WAR gets to increase with VIT : damage mitigation, HP pool, and damage all in one stat. VIT helps them hold hate through dmg, take dmg through mitigation, and survive with a high HP pool. STR is just icing on the cake. It's literally everything the job needs. If we could put points in MND to increase everything a PLD needs it would be a better job. That is my 2 cents. I could be wrong, but it seems like if MND was for PLD what VIT is for WAR we may not even be having this discussion.

If we aren't going to use point allocation to make unique builds then take it out of the game, it's pointless. Just give every job 2 stats that increase everything they can possibly do, and boost those stats beyond others every even level, that would go a long way towards making jobs balanced. (IMO)

Hi Sortis,

Definitely some good points and something I noticed as well when they were first announcing the key stats per Class / Job.

There is a *fundamental* design (flaw) advantage with making Strength (STR) and Vitality (VIT) the 2 primary stats on Warrior whereas for Paladin it's Mind (MND) and Strength (STR), unless SE decides to adjust the base Defense / VIT on Paladin when you switch over.

As you said, having VIT be a Warrior's primary stat means it helps increase their Auto Attack Damage (and potentially WS damage (TBD)), *and* it inherently increases HP, helps with Damage Mitigation, and as Kaeko's testing notes, it helps with Magic Defense in some way as well(!).

For Paladin (who is supposedly *the* Tank (its unique "characteristic" is supposed to be a Defensive "rock" / foundation (it's certainly not a Damage Dealer)), they make it so bonuses are in STR and MND, and in addition to that, they then have to focus some points into VIT (for HP, higher Defense, Magic Defense (from Kaeko's testing notes)), and potentially DEX (but as many have pointed out sadly, it doesn't help much with Blocking at all)).

There's definitely an inherent advantage and it's easier for a Warrior to just focus on dumping points (and Materia) into STR and VIT only.

Now if Yoshida-san and team actually made a fundamental adjustment so that when you switch over to Paladin Job, you gain a noticeable Defense and/or VIT Boost (inherent with the Job itself), then this problem would be solved.

Why they don't give Paladins an inherent higher Defense / VIT Rating is a bit baffling IMO (or change the formulas to calculate Damage or Blocking for Shields).