Something should be done for players that love a challenge in Alliance Raids.

[Deveryn]

It's not my place to speak for the devs but they gave us variant/criterion dungeons this expansion and unreal trials last expansion. So it's my hope that we can get EX alliance raids in the future.

There was also no exploration zone in this expansion, so what are we supposed to give up for this dream and what does it even entail?

I've already listed some options, but I'll go through them again using the formatting.

• augmenting weekly normal mode alliance gear
• Augmenting tome weapons
• Chance to get a mount. (not sure how they would fail-proof this. maybe 4-5 totems a clear? 1 totem a boss fight?)
• an augmentable weapon (Using current as an example. 520->525 or 530)
• more tomes than normal mode in general

They could do this with future criterion installments too, depending on where they release them in the patch cycle. It is a new installment, after all.

Those rewards already exist in other content, so it would be redundant. That's why criterion offers what little it does. Unreal isn't offering anything like that either, so I don't know how there's an expectation for more upgrades from something like this.

[Zairava]

There was also no exploration zone in this expansion, so what are we supposed to give up for this dream and what does it even entail?

Who's to say we have to give up anything? I'm sure there's multiple factors as to why we don't have something like eureka and bozja this expansion. Deep Dungeon will end up making it up for me personally.

Those rewards already exist in other content, so it would be redundant. That's why criterion offers what little it does.

Sure, but it still makes it easier to get up alt jobs regardless. In a game where it's prided on being able to play every job on one character, it takes almost ridiculously long to get max IL on every job if you aren't spamming hunt trains endlessly when the odd number patch hits, this hits weapons the largest, namely.

Though speaking on that, I would prefer if the relics also were higher on the IL side when new phases drop, so it's not just purely cosmetic until the final phase where it becomes BiS. Using current as an example, the first stage could have been 520 while the stage coming out in .35 would be 530.

This wouldn't necessarily make tome weapons irrelevant either, since ideally you would get one tome weapon before .X5 patches land to begin with.

[ForteNightshade]

Why do we need casual content turned into hardcore content? Would you be fine with a story mode of the Ultimates that gives a slightly less impressive weapon and title?

It's fine to have things that are just for hardcore players and stuff that's just for casual players. 24 man raids fall under the casual umbrella, and for high player count hardcore content there's BA and DRS already, and any new exploration zone would have a similar high player count hardcore raid.

Nobody is asking for it to be hardcore nor do they want an easier version removed from casual players. A lot of people are simply disappointed Euphrosyne and Aglaia are so ridiculously easy you pretty much can't wipe outside of day one when no one knows what's happening. I shouldn't be able to survive with three vuln stacks in Nophica but I absolutely can. The OP is simply proposing a situation where you can still have an easier version of say, Euphrosyne but those of us who want something that does more than tickle without going up to the Savage level would have an option.

[VerdeLuck]

Nobody is asking for it to be hardcore nor do they want an easier version removed from casual players. A lot of people are simply disappointed Euphrosyne and Aglaia are so ridiculously easy you pretty much can't wipe outside of day one when no one knows what's happening. I shouldn't be able to survive with three vuln stacks in Nophica but I absolutely can. The OP is simply proposing a situation where you can still have an easier version of say, Euphrosyne but those of us who want something that does more than tickle without going up to the Savage level would have an option.

The person responding to me is asking exactly that, so it's pretty disngenuous to say no one is asking for this. Making hardcore/Savage content out of casual content is pretty weird, the balance right now between the two is pretty good in that the odd patches are for the casuals and the even patches are for the raiders. Why upset that by asking for more savage level fights made out of casual content?

[Zairava]

The person responding to me is asking exactly that, so it's pretty disngenuous to say no one is asking for this. Making hardcore/Savage content out of casual content is pretty weird, the balance right now between the two is pretty good in that the odd patches are for the casuals and the even patches are for the raiders. Why upset that by asking for more savage level fights made out of casual content?

Because we aren't asking for savage alliance raids, we're asking for ex alliance raids. That "balance" isn't really a set-in-stone idea either. It's just when those particular types of content are released. Every major patch we get an ex trial, so that logic is already flawed.

[Themarvin]

Would be nice... right now in the last two expansions it has been more like whack a mole rather than having to deal with problems the way eg. Dun Scaith, Weeping City of Mhach did.... and so on and so forth.

[Asari5]

funny how every time people ask for midtier content, other people come and talk something about savage (or sometimes mythic +) as if they dont even know about the differences in these things

[Gemina]

Nobody is asking for it to be hardcore nor do they want an easier version removed from casual players. A lot of people are simply disappointed Euphrosyne and Aglaia are so ridiculously easy you pretty much can't wipe outside of day one when no one knows what's happening. I shouldn't be able to survive with three vuln stacks in Nophica but I absolutely can. The OP is simply proposing a situation where you can still have an easier version of say, Euphrosyne but those of us who want something that does more than tickle without going up to the Savage level would have an option.

Not easy to wipe =/= easy raid. And if you're inflicted with three vuln stacks, you're either not as good as you think you are, or you're ignoring non-lethal mechanics with healer help. Even as MNK or SAM in the current raid, I will not survive getting hit with a vuln stack unless a healer tops me up, or I use my self-sustain tools to give me just enough HP and defense to take it. Just depends on which mechanic I failed. For Nophica in particular, most of her mechanics hit me for 60-80% of my HP depending on mitigation. There is no way I'm surviving two consecutive hits as a non-tank.

Now I'm not saying Aglaia and Euphrosyne are not easy to clear, but alliance raids have been surefire clears for a very long time now. Gone are the days of WoD and Orbonne, and they seem to have gone away from allowing one player to wipe the entire alliance. Though tanks and other stack marker holders can still easily kill a lot of players.

This does not mean that optional 24-man content cannot be released for players who do want more of a challenge. They could easily make Euphrosyne evil AF by stacking some of these mechanics together, reducing safe spots, one-shot kills and so forth. I would be all for that. These players would need incentive to do it though, and more developer time would be required as well.

[ForteNightshade]

The person responding to me is asking exactly that, so it's pretty disngenuous to say no one is asking for this. Making hardcore/Savage content out of casual content is pretty weird, the balance right now between the two is pretty good in that the odd patches are for the casuals and the even patches are for the raiders. Why upset that by asking for more savage level fights made out of casual content?

They said exactly what the OP did: a separate version of Alliance raids with a higher difficulty moniker. Zairava, you're welcome to correct me if I'm misinterpreting your post but I'm assuming you meant something along the lines of Euphrosyne Unreal or Extreme that is essentially the same fights but scaled to be more difficult. Where that difficulty falls is debatable but enough to challenge

Not easy to wipe =/= easy raid. And if you're inflicted with three vuln stacks, you're either not as good as you think you are, or you're ignoring non-lethal mechanics with healer help. Even as MNK or SAM in the current raid, I will not survive getting hit with a vuln stack unless a healer tops me up, or I use my self-sustain tools to give me just enough HP and defense to take it. Just depends on which mechanic I failed. For Nophica in particular, most of her mechanics hit me for 60-80% of my HP depending on mitigation. There is no way I'm surviving two consecutive hits as a non-tank.

Now I'm not saying Aglaia and Euphrosyne are not easy to clear, but alliance raids have been surefire clears for a very long time now. Gone are the days of WoD and Orbonne, and they seem to have gone away from allowing one player to wipe the entire alliance. Though tanks and other stack marker holders can still easily kill a lot of players.

This does not mean that optional 24-man content cannot be released for players who do want more of a challenge. They could easily make Euphrosyne evil AF by stacking some of these mechanics together, reducing safe spots, one-shot kills and so forth. I would be all for that. These players would need incentive to do it though, and more developer time would be required as well.

If none of the bosses have even the slightest chance of wiping you outside of day one shenanigans or mostly new players unfamiliar with the mechanics, then it does make them easy. Both Aglaia and Euphrosyne suffer in this regard. In fact, we're so far above their scaling you can outright skip mechanics on release. A tank can easily live through three vuln stacks without any concern. If you're dying to a single vuln on Melee DPS, either you aren't using any defensives or have exceptionally low gear considering I've lived a vuln on Red Mage of all jobs.

I'm aware of the eased difficulty on alliance raids. Which is why even some of the casual demographic is complaining. It gives them almost no staying power despite being one of the major sources of content for six weeks. You mention needing incentives but Orbonne, Weeping City and Dun Scaith never needed any and remained populated throughout their entire life cycle. And no, Orbonne was not nerfed until well over a year after it's release—in Shadowbringers. The reduced difficulty has nothing to do with incentive but the decision by the dev team to make everything easier in these last two expansions. At least when it comes to casual content.