Bring back unskippable cutscenes.

[Kolaina]

That's not how time works, though. 23 people giving up one minute does not cost 23 minutes. It costs one minute. You're pushing a logical fallacy.

Already explained how it’s 23 individuals giving a minute each and not 23 minutes consecutive.

[Midareyukki]

Holy math skills batman, no wonder people failed at Construct 8 if this is how we apply maths...!

[Kolaina]

Holy math skills batman, no wonder people failed at Construct 8 if this is how we apply maths...!

It’s not about the math itself, rather the measure of what’s given. If we could drop the narrow mindedness, we could get much further in discussions. Or not and remain stagnant

[Scintilla]

This has nothing to do with the act of helping. It is literally only the act of waiting so an individual can watch a clip. There is no aide or lack there of in this act. I mean good attempt at turning it into something it’s not, but let’s focus on the point said and not create another that hasn’t just to respond to

Both involve providing a few extra moments of your time to try to improve the player's experiences of the game and community.

By providing a few moments of your time to offer advice or support during a duty, and remaining patient and encouraging through possible delays due to mistakes, you are contributing towards making their experience of the game and community a positive one.
By providing a few moments of your time to wait for them to watch a cutscene if they wish to whilst still allowing them to enjoy the fight in full, you are contributing towards making their experience of the game and story a positive one.

It all comes down to patience. Sadly it seems some players out there don't have it.

Not everyone cares about the story. Not everyone cares about the boss being pulled. I didn't watch a single cutscene. Not one. I know I can't speak for everyone and that's fine. If a new person wants to speak up, then by all means, ask. Don't demand, as people don't take kindly to people copping out orders, but ask. I'd be more than happy to wait if you showed me the respect of asking me for more of my time rather than expecting it.

True - not everyone cares about the story and I fully respect that. We all play for different reasons. However, if someone isn't interested in the story they are free to skip the cutscene as we all do without any detriment to them. Similarly, some may watch the cutscene out of interest but not be too worried about others in the team starting the duty ahead of them. But this isn't the case for all and some do want to watch the cutscene while still being able to enjoy the duty in full.

Unless I misunderstood you, you would expect the new sprout to speak up and verbally ask everyone to wait a few seconds to watch the cutscene? Unless they have made this verbal request for 60-seconds of your time, you won't give it? Being new to a game can be intimidating - being completely new to MMOs even more so. Speaking up to a group of 23 veteran players to ask for them to wait for you when you've no idea what their response will be may be too daunting for some. The Trust system is popular for a reason and has helped to relieve this issue for many, but doesn't this suggest a possible lack of tolerance amongst few within the community which pushes new players into playing with NPCs rather than a team of players?

In day-to-day society, I will wait to hold a door open for the next person - I don't expect them to verbally ask me first. To me such actions show respect for the other person, whilst only taking a few moments of my time.

[MaxCarnage]

True - not everyone cares about the story and I fully respect that. We all play for different reasons. However, if someone isn't interested in the story they are free to skip the cutscene as we all do without any detriment to them. Similarly, some may watch the cutscene out of interest but not be too worried about others in the team starting the duty ahead of them. But this isn't the case for all and some do want to watch the cutscene while still being able to enjoy the duty in full.

Unless I misunderstood you, you would expect the new sprout to speak up and verbally ask everyone to wait a few seconds to watch the cutscene? Unless they have made this verbal request for 60-seconds of your time, you won't give it? Being new to a game can be intimidating - being completely new to MMOs even more so. Speaking up to a group of 23 veteran players to ask for them to wait for you when you've no idea what their response will be may be too daunting for some. The Trust system is popular for a reason and has helped to relieve this issue for many, but doesn't this suggest a possible lack of tolerance amongst few within the community which pushes new players into playing with NPCs rather than a team of players?

In day-to-day society, I will wait to hold a door open for the next person - I don't expect them to verbally ask me first. To me such actions show respect for the other person, whilst only taking a few moments of my time.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the cutscene watcher. As long as someone asks and not demands, I am more inclined to wait.

I will use the same example of door holding. If someone says, "hold the door for that person" I will not do. Just as with an elevator. If someone asks for me to hold the door, I will, but if they demand it of me? No, sorry. You couldn't give me the courtesy and respect of treating me as a equal, instead choosing to command me and expect my obedience, so I will give you no respect in turn.

That is also society. You cannot expect everyone around you to conform to your wants and wishes. You cannot, in society, make demands of people, and not expect push back.

I could count the amount if times someone said "please" if reference to waiting for cutscenes in my 3 years of playing on one hand. It is always demands. A lot of the people who say "it's not hard to not be rude" also don't seem to understand it's not hard to say "please". /shrug

If you want respect, you gotta give it, too. That's not directed at the sprout, but rather the "saviours", as they were dubbed.

[Xirean]

It doesn't necessarily have to be the cutscene watcher. As long as someone asks and not demands, I am more inclined to wait.

I will use the same example of door holding. If someone says, "hold the door for that person" I will not do. Just as with an elevator. If someone asks for me to hold the door, I will, but if they demand it of me? No, sorry. You couldn't give me the courtesy and respect of treating me as a equal, instead choosing to command me and expect my obedience, so I will give you no respect in turn.

That is also society. You cannot expect everyone around you to conform to your wants and wishes. You cannot, in society, make demands of people, and not expect push back.

I could count the amount if times someone said "please" if reference to waiting for cutscenes in my 3 years of playing on one hand. It is always demands. A lot of the people who say "it's not hard to not be rude" also don't seem to understand it's not hard to say "please". /shrug

If you want respect, you gotta give it, too. That's not directed at the sprout, but rather the "saviours", as they were dubbed.

Kinda feels like you're projecting some sort of hostile intent on the people who suggest to wait for others in a cutscene. In my experience the message is often only "CS" when the group gets to the boss. That's kinda all that is necessary imo. It's a simple reminder to the group to check for people who might be in a cutscene. Why there needs to be more words than that I do not understand.

[Kolaina]

Kinda feels like you're projecting some sort of hostile intent on the people who suggest to wait for others in a cutscene. In my experience the message is often only "CS" when the group gets to the boss. That's kinda all that is necessary imo. It's a simple reminder to the group to check for people who might be in a cutscene. Why there needs to be more words than that I do not understand.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned “courtesy”. Would it not be courteous to include certain mannerisms such as a “please” or a “thank you”? Surely this can be done, no?

[Xirean]

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned “courtesy”. Would it not be courteous to include certain mannerisms such as a “please” or a “thank you”? Surely this can be done, no?

Could be. Though in games people tend to shorten communication as much as possible. Especially when one needs to get that message out quickly, such as before people pull a boss.

Edit: I would also consider it a courtesy to not add hostile intent to someone's words when trying to get people to wait for someone in a cutscene.

[Scintilla]

It doesn't necessarily have to be the cutscene watcher. As long as someone asks and not demands, I am more inclined to wait.

I will use the same example of door holding. If someone says, "hold the door for that person" I will not do. Just as with an elevator. If someone asks for me to hold the door, I will, but if they demand it of me? No, sorry. You couldn't give me the courtesy and respect of treating me as a equal, instead choosing to command me and expect my obedience, so I will give you no respect in turn.

That is also society. You cannot expect everyone around you to conform to your wants and wishes. You cannot, in society, make demands of people, and not expect push back.

I could count the amount if times someone said "please" if reference to waiting for cutscenes in my 3 years of playing on one hand. It is always demands. A lot of the people who say "it's not hard to not be rude" also don't seem to understand it's not hard to say "please". /shrug

If you want respect, you gotta give it, too. That's not directed at the sprout, but rather the "saviours", as they were dubbed.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned “courtesy”. Would it not be courteous to include certain mannerisms such as a “please” or a “thank you”? Surely this can be done, no?

So the disagreement isn't around waiting for cutscene viewers, it's more around a dislike of how some veteran players 'announce' them?

I presume this is more a matter of differing interpretation? I've never had much of an issue with it: I don't interpret it as they're 'ordering or demanding' me to wait, instead I view it more as a quick warning that there may be a sprout in another team who might want to watch the cutscene. Then I can keep an eye out - if it turns out that they don't want to watch the cutscene and skip it, then I'll start. If they do watch, then I'll wait out of politeness and respect.

Some of these calls may skip 'please' or 'thank you', but again I don't take much issue with that. They're calling with good intentions, hoping to make the sprout's experience as good as possible. As that's also an aim of mine, I will still wait, regardless of whether or not whoever called 'CS' said 'please' - I'm not waiting for the caller, I'm waiting for the sprout.

[Seraphor]

Already explained how it’s 23 individuals giving a minute each and not 23 minutes consecutive.

So why did you mention it at all? It's a useless statement to make.
It's like saying the average alliance raid takes 12 hours of player time to beat, because it's 24 players each taking 30 minutes. But 12 hours, or the cumulative time of all players involved, isn't a useful metric by which to measure the length of a duty, in any sense.

Precisely why my first comment was "that's some creative maths".