What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Seraphor]

I despise the frankly vile suffering fetish this game pushes, pushing that a world with out want is bad and then glorifying the societies that let children freeze to death it's disgusting

Yes, please continue to completely miss the point.
Like I said, this is why I don't do this...

[jameseoakes]

Yes, please continue to completely miss the point.
Like I said, this is why I don't do this...

Don't patronise me, get the point your making It's just the ideas that underpin it are evil the whole comfort is bad and we need people to be starving for live to having meaning is evil and the game condrictis it by most the cast being so rich and privileged they unaffected by it.

[Seraphor]

Don't patronise me, get the point your making It's just the ideas that underpin it are evil the whole comfort is bad and we need people to be starving for live to having meaning is evil and the game condrictis it by most the cast being so rich and privileged they unaffected by it.

Ok.
I want you to go away and read the Tipitaka or the Zen Sutra's, and then come back and explain to me why Buddhism is evil.
Then go away and read Thomas Moore's Utopia, and tell me why his critique is wrong and why absolute perfection is both attainable and the only thing that matters.

If you can't do that, you're not disagreeing, you're missing the point.
I look forward to you calling an entire religion evil.

No one is glorifying freezing children or fetishizing suffering, and you are missing. the. point. No actually you're wilfully misrepresenting it, if you're claiming that's what is happening here.

[jameseoakes]

Ok.
I want you to go away and read the Tipitaka or the Zen Sutra's, and then come back and explain to me why Buddhism is evil.
Then go away and ready Thomas Moore's Utopia, and tell me why his critique is wrong and why absolute perfection is both attainable and the only thing that matters.

If you can't do that, you're not disagreeing, you're missing the point.
I look forward to you calling an entire religion evil.

I love the gatekeeping, this games amazing if you've read these very specific books and agree with there premise and if you don't read them you need to shut up. Honestly if I have to read classic works of literate or theology to understand a story then it's a a badly told story especially one meant for mass consumption. it if it can't make it's themes work with out that level of specific media literacy then you should use themes you can make work.

Edit
No one is glorifying freezing children or fetishizing suffering, and you are missing. the. point. No actually you're wilfully misrepresenting it, if you're claiming that's what is happening here.

I don't think the ancients are in any way perfect however they don't seem to have to worry about petty wants like where there next meal comes from or shelter, where as this game has story points about how the common populous struggle to live, Ishgard had whole narrative points about how children were freezing to death. That is the realty of the suffering Venat inflicted there's no glory in it it's just misery and a painful short life

[jameseoakes]

Yes. Maybe it is a badly told a story, I'm not disagreeing with that.
I'm disagreeing with the bold claim that fundamental tenements of real world religions are EVIL because you've misinterpreted a badly told story.
It is flat out not glorifying freezing children, or fetishizing suffering, just because these are thing that are necessary to happen in the world the story is set in.

You are falling for the very same folly Moore critiqued! There's a reason why he wrote Utopia, because people think like this. And that's why it relevant for you to read it and understand it.

The issue with the endwalker story is that it didn't need to happen Venat inflicted it on the world as there was hardship before it was just less petty and left people free to follow there interests and not have to constantly fear starvation and poverty oh and made everyones lives extremely short.

[jameseoakes]

If these concepts are too high brow

Honestly I have really had it with your mocking of me, it nasty and petty.

[Seraphor]

Honestly I have really had it with your mocking of me, it nasty and petty.

And calling me evil isn't?

You said "if it can't make it's themes work with out that level of specific media literacy then..." that's what I was referring to.

[jameseoakes]

And calling me evil isn't?

You said "if it can't make it's themes work with out that level of specific media literacy then..." that's what I was referring to.

I didn't call you evil I said the themes you are pushing are

Your choice of words was very insulting

[Seraphor]

Venat does not want the Ancients to rebuild their society and save those trapped within Zodiark and unable to re-enter the aetherial sea. She sees these acts as a rejection of suffering and believes Ancient society should move forward as is.

Citation needed. You're inferring an intent that isn't stated in the content.

I come back to this:

On a funamental level, the Unsundered are incapable of resisting the final days, due to their aetheric density and lack of ability to control Dynamis.
Only fragmented beings have the potential to develop the resistance to the effects of Dynamis, by virtue of learning to cope with suffering.
Unsundered = doomed to die, no alternatives. Sundered = potential to survive.

Period. Anything more than this is conjecture and whataboutism. This is what the story (maybe poorly) tries to communicate.

This is the basis of all the events that led up to and followed the Sundering. It's survival.

The concepts from Buddhism and Utopia serve a philosophical and literary justification for it.

You're all looking at it backwards.

[jameseoakes]

This is the basis of all the events that led up to and followed the Sundering. It's survival.

The concepts from Buddhism and Utopia serve a philosophical and literary justification for it.

You're all looking at it backwards.

Given the the ancients were exterminated, I don't see how any justication can be put forward that isn't evil.