What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[AwesomeJr44]

Worst case scenario for Emet, they're both evil.

(The monkey comparison is from comparing a monkey to a human. The monkey can be considered near human, but it is not human and is only an animal. Note that this is an observation from an outside, objective, and neutral perspective, I do not fault the sundered for fighting against the Ascians just like I wouldn't fault a monkey for trying to fight against a human that is trying to kill it.)

[Graeham]

NGL, aveyond’s active presence is kind of handy as like. An anti-Bat Signal. “Ah yes, there it is. Time to avoid the thread for a while.”

No No not avoid tread Briny. Guild it recruit to making the post to university latte croud. Rest of guild it making simple post to create more access to the silent majority and Briny targeting chara with the high educated. Guild appreciate the Briny even when not understanding.

I confess, coming from a decade of WoW, making several characters was my first instinct. Even though I knew you could play all classes on a single character, I just enjoy having separate characters, each with their own classes, aesthetics and personalities. From the moment I picked up the game in 2016 to the last patch of Shadowbringers, all of my alts were up to date or nearly so, each with at least two jobs at level 80, with only a single job being shared by two characters -- SMN/SCH, though one character was much more SMN and the other SCH.

Endwalker cured me of my altitis.

It good point. We agree with the Tariq.

…because he said "Likewise"? Is that it? Is this the standards for an echo chamber now?…

It good point. We agree with the Tariq.

Thing is... I'm sorry but... do you even know why I wrote what I wrote? Did you even read the rest? I think you didn't, and that's why you're writing that. If you had, you'd know that the reason isn't with the content itself, but what Aveyond does directly. With the fact that any time anyone even posts anything he disagrees with, he shoves his entire opinion of it like you didn't matter. A few months ago, it was funny and soft, he wasn't as crude as he is nowadays. But now, it seems that any idea of how the game should be that doesn't follow his one neat little category, he just reacts like the people who gave the idea are stupid. And any attempt to call him out on it or point out that all he does is be a negative nancy is met with "Echo Chamber". When in reality, he himself only prefers to interact with people who cater to his tastes, consequences for his own actions and what he says be damned!

So no. You are wrong. It's not just because he says "Likewise". I'm not so crude as to deny people the chance to agree or disagree with things. It's got nothing to do with it. At least know a bit about the person you're defending before you start pushing others just because they point out he's a hypocrite why don't you?

This it not true. Is not the Echo Chamber. Is the eChO cHaMbEr like the Tariq altitis explain. It like the Echo Chamber but CAPS key it is broken.

(Meanwhile, in the realm of reality, hundreds of thousands of players have thoroughly enjoyed EW, in turn "proving" that the writing team has done a fantastic job. It's impossible to please everyone, but they've pleased the huge majority of the playerbase.)

This it not true. Tread it prove no chara live in guild like the EnDwAlKiNg.

With the way this arc is going - assuming that 7.0 releases a decent enough story to come back for - I'll probably just boost my main through whatever remains of the 6.4-6.5 patch stories. After 6.3's lackluster spectacle I'm choosing to just watch a playthrough of any future MSQ for the foreseeable future. Pandaemonium remains the sole bastion of storytelling that I don't feel like I was forced out of, and will be the game's final chance to redeem itself in my eyes.

Do not need to do this. Can just watch the letplay on YouTube. This way it is not need to making the guild static to clear the normal raid. P3N it is the too hard.

[KageTokage]

I'd still never agree with what he did in the wake of Endwalker, but the extra knowledge that he could've reasonably been prevented from going down the path he did just makes it more tragic now.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Emet-Selch fought and killed for his own people.

The WoL fights and kills for his/her own people.

Venat wiped out HER OWN people cause she did not think them worthy of existence.

Venat fought because the path the Ancients were going for was ultimately going to lead them to self-destruction

[KageTokage]

Venat fought because the path the Ancients were going for was ultimately going to lead them to self-destruction

That's the reasoning the story tries to use but it didn't feel like a strong argument to me when it's such a far-off consideration that it would've made infinitely more sense to take action after it had become readily apparent it was going to become a fruitless, self-destructive cycle.

From a strictly practical standpoint, if you're trying to rebuild civilization restoring the 75% of humanity that was lost in summoning Zodiark would've been the right play and also helped ease the grieving hearts of numerous Ancients. It was made apparent that the actual sacrifices were never the issue to Venat's faction and rather they opposed the ideology behind it, viewing it as "weak" and anathema to progress. The notion of using Zodiark to restore everything that was lost was genuinely absurd, and they latched onto that new argument as opposed to the Convocation's initially stated intent of simply restoring those who could yet be saved then leaving it at that.

It's that weird shift where we're suddenly supposed to take the words of some random delusional Ancients as indicative of their entire society, Convocation included that felt really awkward to me.

The whole dynamis factor also just throws a wrench in everything because it insinuates that even if the Ancients had the "right" reaction to the Final Days, they would've still needed to be sundered regardless due to their inherent inability to manipulate the element. It would've been much better IMO if they had simply never made it a consideration in her decision whatsoever and that mankind was genuinely just an unfortunate, unintended casualty of the Sundering and their ability to fight back against Meteion effectively was just a happy coincidence.

[Atelier-Bagur]

To be honest, I think Venat was just stuck with a damn if you, damn if you dont situation because if she decided to do nothing even if she didnt agree with the Convocation's plan then she would still be seen or criticized for it.

[KageTokage]

I'm just ultimately very...confused at how they chose to handle Venat because there are numerous small details they could've changed to absolve her of guilt in multiple respects without needing any drastic rewrites of the story, but instead they opted to paint her as some kind of master planner where almost everything is deliberately orchestrated by her despite most of said events being actively harmful to others.

For someone who Yoshi wanted to convey was a "good person" I will forever question why they left so many openings for her to be interpreted otherwise, as she's so intricately linked with the fundamental lore of the setting that you can't simply forget about her and the ideals she upheld as we push forward into the unknown.

[KageTokage]

Acknowledging mankind is in a flawed, unnatural state =/= declaring they're worthless and unfit to exist.

ShB's message that they still had a right to exist in spite of all those flaws and failings was a simple one that resonated with me.

EW feeling a weird need to try to drag down/dehumanize the Ancients and paint them as critically flawed to justify their end felt a touch...unnecessary by comparison. Unfortunately, it succeeded since at its most extreme I've seen people cheering for their destruction at the hands of the Final Days simply because they upset Hermes, which I find considerably more disturbing then the aforementioned assertion that Emet-Selch had a right to try to restore his people.

[Kazhar]

Venat placed a gun on the table. Emet and pals picked it up and started blasting everyone in range. Both bear responsibility, but one of them is pretty clear worse.

The analogy doesn't work. Venat placing a gun implies that all she did was giving them the tools, but that's not what happened. She gave them both the gun and the motivation to use it.

It would be like telling a guy in immense grief that killing someone would bring back his family, invite that someone to be in shooting range, giving the first person a gun and then being shocked they actually do it. There's a point when it goes beyond just complicity and it becomes actively malicious.

[Graeham]

The analogy doesn't work. Venat placing a gun implies that all she did was giving them the tools, but that's not what happened. She gave them both the gun and the motivation to use it.

It would be like telling a guy in immense grief that killing someone would bring back his family, invite that someone to be in shooting range, giving the first person a gun and then being shocked they actually do it. There's a point when it goes beyond just complicity and it becomes actively malicious.

Yes is good point. Venar tell the King Solus and the Elibuss and the Lahee that if he kill all the chara on all the world they come back necro in the isekai as his friend. Then Venar give the technologies to kill all the worlds. We can not find the cutescene where this is happen but is true.