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  1. #11
    Player
    ThaCa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    853
    Character
    Wise Fuchsia
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Blue Mage is one of the better side content this game has, there should be more limited Jobs instead of basic 2 minute meme Jobs. Limited just needs their level cap and roulette restrictions lifted outside of newest Savage and Ultimate.
    (3)

  2. #12
    Player
    Heroman3003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Lauren Zackson
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Roulette restrictions are not going anywhere because Blue Mage does not fit into existing roles. Level cap restriction is not going anywhere until there is stuff to actually get past level 70. Plus, they already promised to have an update to Blue Mage at some point in the future (probably in 6.4, pushing its level cap to 80 is my bet).
    (5)

  3. #13
    Player
    aveyond-dreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    2,305
    Character
    Fenris Pendragon
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    A promise worth about as much as Egi glamours and we know how that turned out. Years of them scratching their heads doing nothing only to eventually realize there was no way forward with things as they were. Such is the case for limited jobs now.
    (0)
    Авейонд-сны


  4. #14
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    I'm not sure this is possible, though it is an interesting idea. I would note, though, that some other Jobs DO have elemental spells. For example, the Stone and Aero lines of spells on WHM deal Earth and Wind damage, respectively. NIN has Fire (Hellfrog, Katon, Goka Mekkyaku), Lightning (Forked Raiju, Fleeting Raiju, Raiton), Water (Suiton), Ice (Hyoton, Hyosho Ranryu), Earth (Hollow Nozuchi - not sure about Doton; it just says "damage with a potency", but Hollow says "additional Earth" damage), AND Wind (Phantom Kamaitachi) damage types. RDM has Lightning, Wind, (both single target and AOE), Fire, and Earth (single target only) damage types, and Verflare also deals Fire type damage and is AOE. DRG has at least one Fire damage attack (maybe more, but I don't really DRG). BLM deals a variety of Ice, Fire, and Thunder damage types. SMN deals Fire, Wind, and Earth damage types.

    I dunno, I think the idea is interesting. Blue Carnival does this some already, so expanding on that would be neat. I remember wondering in Eureka why we couldn't exploit elemental weaknesses with our spell elements, though I guess that would be hard for anyone other than maybe BLM to do, and even not really them because the Ice spell potencies are so much lower than Fire, even if the enemy was weak to it. RDM is the only one that really has equal potencies of different elements, but the way dualcast and Mana work, it's not as doable, either.

    .

    BLU can't work as a full Job unless it's turned into a bland reskin of BLM or RDM, and no one who actually likes BLU or the idea of BLU wants that. Besides, a lot of people like BLU as it is and would hate being robbed of that, kinda like how people who liked Old SMN don't all hate New SMN, they hate that New SMN caused them to lose Old SMN.

    And FF11 can't be used as a basis because FF11's combat system isn't NEARLY as rigid as FFXIV's is. Even the mere EXISTENCE of Sub-Jobs proves that.
    (4)

  5. #15
    Player
    Striker44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,138
    Character
    Elmind Exilus
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DezereDawn View Post
    While the game isn't the pinnacle of balance by any stretch, FF11 has proven you can absolutely make BLU work as a full job with access to all the same content as other jobs, while including its signature "learn abilities from monsters" shtick,

    Frankly, i'd take a more limited toolkit that's usable in the regular game over the current iteration because at least half or more of the BLU Kit is currently the same thing with slightly different effects and animations, and is effectively filler, or used in one blue carnival fight then ignored in favour of a single set of abilities basically everyone uses for general purpose gameplay,

    Hell, collection aspect could still exist with spells replacing others, same effect, different looks/aesthetic etc

    at bare minimum, i want to run deep dungeons as BLU, even if it doesn't give me titles or achieves, just for the fun of it.
    It's not just "learn abilities from monsters," but the relative power of those abilities. Never at any point in BLU's existence in FFXIV has it ever been suggested or intended to be a "full" job. The entire purpose of it being limited is the freedom to go nuts with its power. It's side content here. Some people enjoy Gold Saucer events. Some people enjoy jumping puzzles and the Sightseeing Log. Some people enjoy grinding FATEs to get the max-level zone rewards. Some people enjoy BLU. To make it a "full" job would require nerfing it into the ground in a way that would destroy the very purpose behind it. It's okay if it's not something any of us personally enjoy; other people do. Please stop trying to take away from them.
    (4)

  6. #16
    Player
    CaptainLagbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,307
    Character
    Rhaya Jakkya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Turning BLU into a "full job" as it is now would not work, there's only so many spells it has currently that would be reasonable to even keep, and most of the ones that could be kept would probably have to see their potency adjusted.

    But what we have that don't have any extra effects not generally meant for players to access...

    Water Cannon
    Flamethrower
    Flying Frenzy
    Loom
    Song of Torment
    Plaincracker
    Flying Sardine
    Fire Angon
    Alpine Draft
    Electrogenesis
    Pom Cure
    Sonic Boom
    Angel Whisper
    Feculent Flood
    Blaze

    And maybe one or two of the various Primal skills for a heavy hitting CD, which include...
    Eruption
    Mountain Buster
    Shock Strike
    Quesar
    J-Kick
    Phantom Flurry

    And lastly, as a defensive option, I suppose Diamondback as it exists now could technically work...

    You build your fancy "full job blue mage" from that selection, and consider if you would play it over Black Mage or Red Mage.
    (2)

  7. #17
    Player Deveryn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    2,724
    Character
    Deveryn Ev'liarsh
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard View Post
    Turning BLU into a "full job" as it is now would not work, there's only so many spells it has currently that would be reasonable to even keep, and most of the ones that could be kept would probably have to see their potency adjusted.

    But what we have that don't have any extra effects not generally meant for players to access...

    Water Cannon
    Flamethrower
    Flying Frenzy
    Loom
    Song of Torment
    Plaincracker
    Flying Sardine
    Fire Angon
    Alpine Draft
    Electrogenesis
    Pom Cure
    Sonic Boom
    Angel Whisper
    Feculent Flood
    Blaze

    And maybe one or two of the various Primal skills for a heavy hitting CD, which include...
    Eruption
    Mountain Buster
    Shock Strike
    Quesar
    J-Kick
    Phantom Flurry

    And lastly, as a defensive option, I suppose Diamondback as it exists now could technically work...

    You build your fancy "full job blue mage" from that selection, and consider if you would play it over Black Mage or Red Mage.
    If they were to make it fit with the other jobs, you would have a template similar to the other mages, where you have your targeted single and AOE spells and one melee range spell. Maybe it could get the SMN treatment and have element phases to maintain some of its variety. J Kick to gap close, maybe Loom to move around a little more freely. Maybe Bad Breath is their debuff, but it's on a longer cooldown.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    BokoToloko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    380
    Character
    Boko Toloko
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    I find appealing the idea of a Field Exploration instance with Carnival elements. However, rather than having field action, it would be more appropiate if there was an array of instance related items that worked along BLU toolkit (for example, tokens to draw Mimicry buffs from). The exploration part would merge well with a class that is intended to be played to explore other content. You could even open more venues for spell learning (and, obviouslty, new spells). My only issue with the idea is the limiting factor that the Blue Mage poses on the content, as it gates one kind of content behind a different kind of content that doesn't necessarily align in term of interest (people might be interested on FE instance but abhor Blue Mage and viceversa)

    A Deep Dungeon for BLU doesn't really ring with me, on the other hand.

    However, the take some people here share on making BLU a real class is completely terrible. The only appeal BLU has is literally being able to customize your spell list. It doesn't have any kind of gameplay loop standarized classes do and trying to bake Blue Mages into a normal class will leave a chimera that will be dead on arrival at the cost of killing a content that at least appealed to some people. Might as well ask for a new class altogether instead of deleting content just because. You don't like the limited class? Don't play that kind of content. Easy as that. This is the same kind of egotistical train of thought that also ask Bozja-like content to stop coming just because forum dweller didn't ask and SE clearly has to tailor content to their specific tastes and no one else's. Stop trying to take away content from others who actually like that content.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    DezereDawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    162
    Character
    Dezere Dawn
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Striker44 View Post
    It's not just "learn abilities from monsters," but the relative power of those abilities. Never at any point in BLU's existence in FFXIV has it ever been suggested or intended to be a "full" job. The entire purpose of it being limited is the freedom to go nuts with its power. It's side content here. Some people enjoy Gold Saucer events. Some people enjoy jumping puzzles and the Sightseeing Log. Some people enjoy grinding FATEs to get the max-level zone rewards. Some people enjoy BLU. To make it a "full" job would require nerfing it into the ground in a way that would destroy the very purpose behind it. It's okay if it's not something any of us personally enjoy; other people do. Please stop trying to take away from them.
    Long as the game dwindles it's main content cadence repeatedly over time, i'm not a huge fan of side content getting huge swathes of dev time, and as it stands, that's exactly what's happened since Stormblood. and Blue mage does take a huge amount of dev time for very little gain, if it was usable in more than Blue carnival and not just straight up worse at soloing most things due to it's lower max level (those stats do a hell of a lot more than gimmicky abilities do) i'd maybe consider it worth it's existence right now, as it stands, it's a waste, a complete and utter waste for a game that already seems to struggle to keep up with itself from 6 years ago, and that's a shame.


    Edit: And to anyone saying "you just want Blue to be a generic job!" no, i'd rather the devs actually break out of this stale, stagnant, frankly boring 2 minute half baked job meta and bring RPG elements back into this MMORPG instead of continually sanding off every rough edge until the game is so smooth you can't even press against it without sliding off, it's frankly embarrassing how we've lost any semblence of customization in an rpg outside of looks, and people still cheer that on. i want Every job to be more interesting, not to cull blue to their level. complete opposite.
    (0)
    Last edited by DezereDawn; 01-28-2023 at 04:58 AM.

  10. #20
    Player Deveryn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    2,724
    Character
    Deveryn Ev'liarsh
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DezereDawn View Post
    Long as the game dwindles it's main content cadence repeatedly over time, i'm not a huge fan of side content getting huge swathes of dev time, and as it stands, that's exactly what's happened since Stormblood. and Blue mage does take a huge amount of dev time for very little gain, if it was usable in more than Blue carnival and not just straight up worse at soloing most things due to it's lower max level (those stats do a hell of a lot more than gimmicky abilities do) i'd maybe consider it worth it's existence right now, as it stands, it's a waste, a complete and utter waste for a game that already seems to struggle to keep up with itself from 6 years ago, and that's a shame.


    Edit: And to anyone saying "you just want Blue to be a generic job!" no, i'd rather the devs actually break out of this stale, stagnant, frankly boring 2 minute half baked job meta and bring RPG elements back into this MMORPG instead of continually sanding off every rough edge until the game is so smooth you can't even press against it without sliding off, it's frankly embarrassing how we've lost any semblence of customization in an rpg outside of looks, and people still cheer that on. i want Every job to be more interesting, not to cull blue to their level. complete opposite.
    I'm hopeful that they've actually been able to do a bit more this time around. Let's not forget they had two updates for it during ShB. With the catch-up out of the way and the mimics in good condition, that should allow them to do more during each expansion.
    (0)

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