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  1. #1
    Player
    RinaShinomiya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    308
    Character
    Catherine Shinomiya
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Kind of funny to still have people delusional enough to believe Green DPS hasn't been a thing for ages. I guess it's only slightly more obvious with Blue DPS aka tanks now that stance dancing and enmity mechanics were so simplified they basically dont exist anymore.
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya View Post
    Kind of funny to still have people delusional enough to believe Green DPS hasn't been a thing for ages. I guess it's only slightly more obvious with Blue DPS aka tanks now that stance dancing and enmity mechanics were so simplified they basically dont exist anymore.
    I'm arguing game history and Dev design intentions via Job kits and actual statements made. /shrug

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by ty_taurus View Post
    If you don't want to design a car to drive...
    Healers have damage spells for when they do solo content. It's like giving a pilot a handgun. They aren't supposed to shoot people with it as their job, but they have it in case they have to bail out and get stranded behind enemy lines.

    And we've literally had this conversation before about the Conjurer questline. I went through it in great detail - with you (and others) - showing you the moral was "don't use your own soul to heal people because it will consume you" not "Healers are supposed to kill people". I even quoted E-Sumi-Yan and multiple parts of the CNJ quests showing this.

    They didn't put those quests in there with some grand intention to super subtly so much so most people missed it hint that Healers should use damage spells. That honestly borderlines on a ridiculous conspiracy theory. The moral wasn't some meta commentary on gaming mechanics of Healers. It's an in-universe lore about the distinction between drawing on one's personal aether (as THMs and RDMs do) vs the ambient aether around us (that CNJs do in a limited way and WHMs and BLMs do moreso), and how casting a Raise spell with one's life energy would likely entirely deplete it, killing the caster (as BLUs do).

    As I told you at least once before and as is apparent from that quest text, E-Sumi-Yan was not going to exile Sylphie because she learned Raise without learning Stone, Aero, and Fluid Aura. It's because she was going to use her own life force to attempt to raise someone, which would kill her. The quests even make it so blindingly apparent I'm somewhat shocked you got the wrong message there.

    .

    Moreover, it's not even true of all the Healer questlines.

    Take the SCH quests, for example. If anything, they're a commentary of the horrors of battle and war. In every one of them, you're paired with a damage dealing, tanking partner (or more) that you are to keep alive with healing and protective magics. Alka Zolka even comments after the level 60 quest how he felt protected and cozy due to all your shielding. Go to your Inn and watch the second cutscene of the Level 60 quest. You and Lily literally HEAL THE VOIDSENT TO DEATH. That green glow the two of you cast is clearly not an attack spell (of which Lily had none), it's curative. The quest text describing the event reads:

    With a burst of blinding light, yourr faerie dispels the spell concealing the voidsent. The foe now visible, the Royal Marines charge. Alka Zolka and his soldiers deliver punishing blows, whilst your spells defend them. The battle is fierce, but soon the fiend lies dying. With its last breaths, it makes ready to release the sickness-yet before it can, the tonberries come to your aid. The killing blow is theirs. Now, as you stand victorious, congratulate your fellow combatants for putting an end to this specter of Mhach.
    No mention of your blistering battle magics or your masterful tactics leading your company. No mention of balancing offense and defense or healing and damage. None. None at all. Was this also "not a coincidence, nor was it a mistake"? Was this them telling prospective SCHs that their job is to heal and protect their allies, who are the ones doing the "real" fighting?

    By the way, this commentary on war and destruction doesn't end there. Take the next quest cutscene in the next quest. Setoto:

    I thought I had lost nearly everyone to that godsforsaken war and the terrible disease that followed... Yet, in spite of all odds, here she is-the last of my family, sitting right in the palm of my hand. I would give anything to see her again.
    And we further see the emphasis on healing and medicinal knowledge:

    You and Alka return to Camp Tranquil with Setoto, and the marauder asks that you use your knowledge to diagnose what is wrong with her. You conclude that, despite the lack of physical injuries, it will be a while before the young tonberry girl wakes.
    Later...

    According to Surito Carito, the gemstone is the crystal core of the statue that you defeated and contains potent white magic. He surmises that Lilac, a part of Setoto's father's consciousness, was driven by a strong desire to see Setoto cured of the Green Death. As such, the phantom faerie led you through the lost city that you might discover this gem, which may contain a remedy to the condition afflicting the inhabitants of the Wanderer's Palace.

    Certain it holds the key to curing the Green Death and reviving the scholarly arts, Surito Carito vows to begin his analysis of the red gemstone straightaway. He thanks you, going on to say he stands by his choice in bequeathing Lily onto you.
    It's not until the level 80 quest description that you agree "as one can never know too many martial tactics", but note this quest was at the end of ShB. But the quest itself is entirely about developing a cure, not waging battle. That and a kind of adorable little love story. And the experiment transpires thus:

    Back at the Wanderer's Palace, Setoto reiterates her commitment to undergoing the experiment. This time, Surito Carito is convinced by her logic, and Alka Zolka by her heartfelt words. Thus, the test begins, Setoto drinking the concoction to destabilize her own aether, Alka Zolka holding the Amdapori focus aloft, and you and your faerie channeling as much restorative aether as you can manage together. Though the experience appears to be excruciating, Setoto bears the pain, and in the end stands before you a Lalafel, with nary a trace of green to be seen.
    The quest ends with Alka Zolka, bashful about his feelings, running off to train, Setoto finding it adorable and ready to live her life and EVENTUALLY tell him how she feels, and with Surito Carito being pleased with the success of the experiment and vowing to continue his research based on your healing of Setoto to eventually try and restore all the Tonberries to their former Lalafellan Nymian forms.

    Note in ALL this the closest thing to talking about damage dealing is to decry war, biological warfare, and the combat focus of Mhach and Amdapor that led to it all, not to embrace it.

    .

    No where is the "Rosetta Stone of this game" saying what you want it to say. The combat didn't say it. The Job design and mechanics didn't say it. And the questlines didn't at all say it. The direction they chose from the beginning I've already explained using the game encounters and mechanics of that time. Your only real rebuttal here is a pretty blatant misinterpretation of the CNJ questline, which I've already explained is wrong and why - indeed, the quests themselves say as much. E-Sumi-Yan outright says if she cast that spell she would die. That was why he considered expelling her. So she wouldn't die as she'd basically be using the BLU Transfusion spell if she tried to cast Raise with her own life force as the energy source.

    You can argue that it's this way now - which I would contest noting that seems to be in spite of the Dev's intentions, not because of them - but you certainly cannot appeal to ARR to uphold that argument.

    Though...there is a bit of an irony in the CNJ/WHM quests being more battle focused than the SCH ones, given the way everything turned out in the end. Strange irony, that.
    (0)
    Last edited by Renathras; 01-24-2023 at 12:34 PM. Reason: Marked with EDIT