It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Bobby66]

Well, I explained how it would be a negative experience for me to be dressed in disco nightmare fuel gear for other people. So I'd like to not expose myself to that. I'm more than happy to wait a few more minutes for a party where that doesn't have to be the case.

Problem is that is a perceived negative that only stems from you, since it requires you to make the assumption that people are using the feature, when you could easily make the same assumption people are not. You more or less are creating a divide to please your own perception around the situation. It is largely a case of you confirm nor deny the use of the option so in term you make the personal choice to view it as people will use it. While if you divided the queues that does have a direct impact on the player experience across the whole because it legit creates a tangible divided in the community that could ripple across the board. That said if it was added in such a way, I would have no personal beef since I normally queue with friends anyways. Just seems rather old that the mere possibly of the option being in game would cause you such a level of displeasure especially when you could not tell who is using it or not.

Snipped some of the quote due to posting limits. I missed this earlier. I'm not going to address people not playing FFXIV as they aren't relevant to the conversation to me; they aren't playing the game and not in the community.

In regards to your question about expression, I'll share this very simple definition of self expression from a Children's Mental Health pamphlet. Don't know if these forums allow links, but it's: Self-expression is about communicating your individuality. This can be through words, clothing and hairstyle, or through art forms such as writing, drawing, music and dance.

Self-expression IS being seen as how you choose to present yourself, at least visually. People are free to interpret how you look to mean whatever, but you maintain the choice to present in that way. Self-expression is a core value of FFXIV. Go to the website for the base game. In bold letters and images, players are encouraged to express themselves through their characters as a core feature. "Bring your inner adventurer to life." Character customization and fashion, along with social systems (given this is an mmo) are heavily featured as what this game is. It even has someone wearing the chocobo head as an example of customization/fashion you can partake in.

Anyone choosing to play this game thus knows that 1. this is a game you will play with other people; 2. those people will customize their characters as they see fit; 3. the game features silly fashion options.

Given this is also a ROLE PLAYING game, people also on various levels grow attached to their characters and who they are. Whether that is people who actively roleplay in the "RP" sense, or those who headcanon as they play through the story. Part of assuming a role includes character appearance and preferences.

Sure, there are going to be people who say they don't care whatsoever about any of this. They are fine picking the base male midlander option, and start without bothering to even click through any character customization options. That's fine. But it doesn't change these core values of FFXIV, the ability to express through characters in a social, shared world environment. This request simply seeks to remove that from other players, and I do not believe the devs should cater to such a request that goes completley against the some of the core values of this (and most) MMOs.

I get where you are coming from, but you really have not touched bases on how adding an optional feature goes against the spirit of the game, they can both exist in the same space. Like this line of thinking would be like people getting overly upset because they added a story mode setting to a darksouls game. The devs can create an experience that caters to both sides. The point I was trying to make but failed regarding the whole people that do not play etc . . . is that your expression will only be hampered if you choose to let the actions of others that you cannot prove or disprove are being done if you let it. Just as you do not care what people that do not play think, the same could be said for those that use the feature and play. You "PERSONALLY" have to make the choice to let it bother you. Granted, I understand the same could be said for me and I have acknowledged this. Though from a community POV I do think compromise is important I would much rather people be able to enjoy the game on a personal level even if it means giving up some of my own personal freedoms. Overall more people playing the game the better, and I think drawing the line in the sand like this goes against the core notion of being part of a community. In the end my own personal enjoyment is not based around what others think and feel, granted this stems from my own personal background and I do understand for others the need to be seen a certain way is important to their own self identity. Never been one for that stuff IRL so it is easy for me to do it also in the game.

That said I appreciate your response and overall you are right this largely boils down to a moot conversations since no side will budge from their PoV, at the very least you are consistent. Either way thank you for your time.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I get where you are coming from, but you really have not touched bases on how adding an optional feature goes against the spirit of the game, they can both exist in the same space. Like this line of thinking would be like people getting overly upset because they added a story mode setting to a darksouls game. The devs can create an experience that caters to both sides. The point I was trying to make but failed regarding the whole people that do not play etc . . . is that your expression will only be hampered if you choose to let the actions of others that you cannot prove or disprove are being done if you let it. Just as you do not care what people that do not play think, the same could be said for those that use the feature and play. You "PERSONALLY" have to make the choice to let it bother you. Granted, I understand the same could be said for me and I have acknowledged this. Though from a community POV I do think compromise is important I would much rather people be able to enjoy the game on a personal level even if it means giving up some of my own personal freedoms. Overall more people playing the game the better, and I think drawing the line in the sand like this goes against the core notion of being part of a community.

That said I appreciate your response and overall you are right this largely boils down to a moot conversations since no side will budge from their PoV, at the very least you are consistent.

I was going to compliment your consistency as well You haven't veered from your opinion on the topic at all nor have said anything to contradict yourself.

[Bobby66]

I was going to compliment your consistency as well You haven't veered from your opinion on the topic at all nor have said anything to contradict yourself.

Aye, may not agree but I do respect your position. For better or worse this will never happen anyways, even still it was an interesting conversation. As mentioned fashion has never been my thing, I legit own multiple pairs of the same outfit and wear the same style since I cannot be bothered with trying to mix and match or look a certain way. Have my causal, work, and sleep attire that is it.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Aye, may not agree but I do respect your position. For better or worse this will never happen anyways, even still it was an interesting conversation. As mentioned fashion has never been my thing, I legit own multiple pairs of the same outfit and wear the same style since I cannot be bothered with trying to mix and match or look a certain way. Have my causal, work, and sleep attire that is it.

Same here. I feel easier to reach a common ground with conversations like this. As at some level, the argument of some that they would at least like to get through the story, with it's sincere moments, without a bikini or frog suit is something I can relate to.

Eidt: Out of posts, but in general:

That's your perception perhaps. Doesn't mean that it's true. I find it incredibly limiting, actually and insulting that my concerns aren't worth your time. Your concerns are worth everyone's time of course, but mine?

I think that's part of why this conversation went how it did. I liked how Bobby66 would at least acknowledge where others are coming from, even if they still disagreed. Perhaps a better compromise would occur if more conversations went that way.

Something like, "I understand your characters appearance is important to you, but it's important to me that I feel more immersed while I play FFXIV, and feel adding options to put other players in lore-friendly attire would help that for me." Can still disagree but it feels a lot less hostile and more understandable.

[Bobby66]

Same here. I feel easier to reach a common ground with conversations like this. As at some level, the argument of some that they would at least like to get through the story, with it's sincere moments, without a bikini or frog suit is something I can relate to.

Same, I am was one of those people that wears the frog helmet all the time on my main, and I have been asked if I could remove my headgear. I did not, but tbh that is why I support this feature I rather someone have the option to hide what they do not want to see then feel as if they simply just have to suck it up or stop playing. While, I also do not think I should have to remove my helmet to cater to someone's else experience.

This just seems like a happy middle ground imo. Though I do understand why others feel differently, glamour and their characters offer different value. For some this may be the only space where they can safely express themselves I get it, but it does go both ways and I do hope those who wish this find a means to obtain the desired game state they long for.

[ty_taurus]

This just seems like a happy middle ground imo. Though I do understand why others feel differently, glamour and their characters offer different value. For some this may be the only space where they can safely express themselves I get it, but it does go both ways and I do hope those who wish this find a means to obtain the desired game state they long for.

It's not a happy middle ground though. I've brought up that it creates as much of a problem for me as the apparent perceived distaste for other people's glamours has seemed to be a problem for others. But everyone's response to my concern is, "you shouldn't feel that way" without compromise. I've offered compromises... A glamour-free server, the ability to only engage with players who do or do not hide glamour... everyone spat on those.

If that's how it's gonna be, then my response to those who are bothered by other people's glamour is, have you tried not being bothered by what other people are wearing?

[Joven]

It's not a happy middle ground though. I've brought up that it creates as much of a problem for me as the apparent perceived distaste for other people's glamours has seemed to be a problem for others. But everyone's response to my concern is, "you shouldn't feel that way" without compromise. I've offered compromises... A glamour-free server, the ability to only engage with players who do or do not hide glamour... everyone spat on those.

If that's how it's gonna be, then my response to those who are bothered by other people's glamour is, have you tried not being bothered by what other people are wearing?

Because your ideas force a certain limit on other people while this idea doesn't. That's why they were rejected.

[Bobby66]

It's not a happy middle ground though. I've brought up that it creates as much of a problem for me as the apparent perceived distaste for other people's glamours has seemed to be a problem for others. But everyone's response to my concern is, "you shouldn't feel that way" without compromise. I've offered compromises... A glamour-free server, the ability to only engage with players who do or do not hide glamour... everyone spat on those.

If that's how it's gonna be, then my response to those who are bothered by other people's glamour is, have you tried not being bothered by what other people are wearing?

By no means do I mean to dismiss your feelings but let us be fair both stances are for the most part purely selfish, but you have to see how you suggestion is far more selfish then those in favor of the option? As per my example are you really going to say having a no glamour server or a queue that splits those that have it on and off is much better solution then having an option that simply toggles glamour off?

As her your last statement, same could be said for you, have you tried to not be bothered by the mere possibly that someone may not want to see how your character looks? Like I could create a character on your server and alter how your character looks you would never know who it is, can you really say with a straight that face that it would bother you to know that someone right now is altering how your character looks?