My take on the simplicity of healers and the healer problem

[ASkellington]

Didn't they did the same thing when they added AST back then? Just copy/pasted WHM and added the card system to it? >.>

AST thankfully has branched out since and even back then it had Noct Sect. That said, yes it did and still does share the lv50 WHM kit. Literally just make ED 3min and it's a carbon copy of WHM with cards right now.

[VerdeLuck]

AST thankfully has branched out since and even back then it had Noct Sect. That said, yes it did and still does share the lv50 WHM kit. Literally just make ED 3min and it's a carbon copy of WHM with cards right now.

And somehow they manage to be unable to balance 2 almost identical skillsets without AST being WHM, but better every patch.

[Rilifane]

And somehow they manage to be unable to balance 2 almost identical skillsets without AST being WHM, but better every patch.

As long a they place so much emphasis on buff stacking and 2min burst meta, they never will.
Because the only way to make WHM (and SGE) competetive would be by giving it a proper burst but that would include adding buttons that deal damage instead of yet another generic oGCD heal nobody asked for. As long as they split healers between "11111" and "11111 but with a cool buff everyone loves you for", WHM and SGE will always fall behind in dps over the expansion and be the 2nd choice for groups that go for pushing dps unless really early into tier when people are happy to have some crafted gear. Give it 2-3 weeks and they're left in the dust. And putting Assize on 40s to align with 2min didn't fix it either. Consistent dps is just not competetive as long as we have this 2min burst meta but that's what all healers are. Having a Phlegma or an Assize doesn't change anything.

[VerdeLuck]

As long a they place so much emphasis on buff stacking and 2min burst meta, they never will.
Because the only way to make WHM (and SGE) competetive would be by giving it a proper burst but that would include adding buttons that deal damage instead of yet another generic oGCD heal nobody asked for. As long as they split healers between "11111" and "11111 but with a cool buff everyone loves you for", WHM and SGE will always fall behind in dps over the expansion and be the 2nd choice for groups that go for pushing dps unless really early into tier when people are happy to have some crafted gear. Give it 2-3 weeks and they're left in the dust. And putting Assize on 40s to align with 2min didn't fix it either. Consistent dps is just not competetive as long as we have this 2min burst meta but that's what all healers are. Having a Phlegma or an Assize doesn't change anything.

Then it seems like it's time to give WHM and SGE 2 minute buff skills so they can contribute to burst as well. AST and SCH being head and shoulders above the others becasue they have 2 minute burst, but also all the capabilities (if not more utility, shielding, and mit) seems like a bad way to balance the healers.

[Jamini]

Then it seems like it's time to give WHM and SGE 2 minute buff skills so they can contribute to burst as well. AST and SCH being head and shoulders above the others becasue they have 2 minute burst, but also all the capabilities (if not more utility, shielding, and mit) seems like a bad way to balance the healers.

I do want to bring this back up too because...honestly this isn't true. At least it's not for higher-end raids.

Looking at people who do parse (I do not. My client is completely incapable of running ACT. However I have plenty of logs thanks to people who do)... SGE and WHM contribution is legitimately right in line with AST and SCH contribution.

- Grey-parsing healers (below the 25th percentile of people who finish a particular fight) tend to favor WHM and SGE by a few hundred DPS in overall contribution.
- Green-blue parsing healers (25th to 75th percentile) are literally almost dead even. At the 35th and 34th percentile SCH and WHM literally are within eighty dps overall contribution. In one parse between myself and a WHM where we were 34th and 35th equally... the difference in our DPS was 1.4% between ourselves, and literally 0.1% difference over the course of the entire fight.
- Purple and higher parsed healers very slightly favors the buff classes. The very highest parse on P6S has a difference of 324 between their WHM and SCH. A difference of 4% at the absolute pinnacle of play, and a grand difference of 0.4% in the overall fight.

Less than a single percentage point of your group's damage is not "head and shoulders". It's a drop in the bucket that literally only matters if you are intentionally running for a high score.

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I will also point out that SGE + SCH groups have significant trouble with P8S2 this tier. That fight in particular has a ton of healing that needs to be pumped out quickly, and it can be difficult without a very detailed plan to properly heal and mit through those hits.

[VerdeLuck]

I do want to bring this back up too because...honestly this isn't true. At least it's not for higher-end raids.

Looking at people who do parse (I do not. My client is completely incapable of running ACT. However I have plenty of logs thanks to people who do)... SGE and WHM contribution is legitimately right in line with AST and SCH contribution.

- Grey-parsing healers (below the 25th percentile of people who finish a particular fight) tend to favor WHM and SGE by a few hundred DPS in overall contribution.
- Green-blue parsing healers (25th to 75th percentile) are literally almost dead even. At the 35th and 34th percentile SCH and WHM literally are within eighty dps overall contribution. In one parse between myself and a WHM where we were 34th and 35th equally... the difference in our DPS was 1.4% between ourselves, and literally 0.1% difference over the course of the entire fight.
- Purple and higher parsed healers very slightly favors the buff classes. The very highest parse on P6S has a difference of 324 between their WHM and SCH. A difference of 4% at the absolute pinnacle of play, and a grand difference of 0.4% in the overall fight.

Less than a single percentage point of your group's damage is not "head and shoulders". It's a drop in the bucket that literally only matters if you are intentionally running for a high score.

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I will also point out that SGE + SCH groups have significant trouble with P8S2 this tier. That fight in particular has a ton of healing that needs to be pumped out quickly, and it can be difficult without a very detailed plan to properly heal and mit through those hits.

That seems like a problem if SCH does 4% more DPS and also has more ultilty, mitigation,and benefit to the team than a WHM. WHM really only has high output GCD healing and spamming glare. It's utility is both extremely lacking to AST and SCH, and it does lower damage.
That doesn't seem quite right from a balance perspective. Not even to mention we just had a tier where AST was absolutely dominant because one of it's buttons was so good it just invalidated a mechanic and it was a must pick, directly bumping out one healer in particular.
Having better damage, better utility buttons, and more options for OGCD healing and mitigation.

AST could also solo heal DSR on patch 6.1 due to it's high damage contribution, high heals, and shield and mitigation buttons.

[Jamini]

That seems like a problem if SCH does 4% more DPS and also has more ultilty, mitigation,and benefit to the team than a WHM. WHM really only has high output GCD healing and spamming glare. It's utility is both extremely lacking to AST and SCH, and it does lower damage.
That doesn't seem quite right from a balance perspective. Not even to mention we just had a tier where AST was absolutely dominant because one of it's buttons was so good it just invalidated a mechanic and it was a must pick, directly bumping out one healer in particular.
Having better damage, better utility buttons, and more options for OGCD healing and mitigation.

AST could also solo heal DSR on patch 6.1 due to it's high damage contribution, high heals, and shield and mitigation buttons.

I do not believe you actually understand what I mean. Allow me to explain it tn clearer terms.

1. You are literally talking about the top 0.01% of all players in the game. SCH and AST only begin to pull away from SGE and WHM when you get to the top 15% of all players who even bother to have cleared savage fights. Right off the bat that's a very small number (something like 10% of any game's population even raids, and fewer will clear even one fight in a tier. Much less all of them.)
2. That 4% is not personal damage. It is raid contribution. So you can immediately throw out all of that utility from additional considerations. Same with Chain Stratagem. Both of those are baked into the rdps number
3. You are correct. WHM mostly has high healing output... and in some fights that is extremely helpful. To the point that in the top 20 parses that are currently on P6S (selected because it's a dummy fight that doesn't really have massively hard-hitting mechanics. IDEAL for SCH and AST) nine of those clears have a white mage! Tied with AST for nine top20 clears! Meanwhile SGE and SCH have 11. The breakdown of healers in the top 50 even skews a little the other direction with SGE and WHM having 29% and 27% of the top 50 overall clears respectively (this week) , and SCH and AST are 22% each (this week)

My point here is that your information is not backed by empirical evidence. If anything buffing healers are less represented at the top, even if they have slightly more contribution. Because ultimately all healers are actually in a pretty good place!

Far as I am aware, exactly one team is recorded doing solo DSR AST. It is one of the absolute best teams in the world.
The damage I am including Is not personal damage either. It's raid contribution (so it includes a portion of all buffed damage, taken from the person buffed.)

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Edit:

I also forgot that you are neglecting to note that WHM doesn't exclusively have heals.

1. Regens. Regens are vastly useful and efficient heals. While technically healing, their fire and forget nature often makes them really ideal for the current structure of high-end fights. (Where you have periods of a LOT of damage, then a long recovery period.) - Pairing SGE/SCH with a WHM/AST dramatically makes the job of both jobs much easier as their abilities are complimentary. (And yes, SCH and SGE both have regens. But WHM and AST regens are notably better)
2. Asylum. While not a mit, the +healing on this works on basically all forms of recovery. It's also strictly better than Fae Illumination (which only impacts spells) and combos really well with tank heals like Shake it Off, Aurora, Heart of Corundum.
3. Divine Benson. While ST, it is a shield.
4. Temperance. AoE mit and healing up. Core for WHM play in savage content
5. Aquaveil. A single target mit. Comparable to both skills on SGE and AST.
6. Liturgy of the Bell. A beautiful combination of Panaheima AND earthly star. While it's not a shield, this ability basically means I as a Scholar do not need to do much of anything except pop soil during the entire duration. It's insanely good.

Could WHM do with a group shield? Yes. Do they starkly need it? Not really. Again the difference between the best WHM and the best SCH or AST is a minuscule amount, even less when you consider that healers are less than half as much damage contribution as a DPS is.