It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Kolaina]

Way to try and entirely sidestep the substance of my refutation of your points, and trying to pivot into tone policing. If you don't have a counter aruegment, that's fine, but no need to resort to ad hominems

You pointed your finger at me. That got the refutation you seek. You threw out incorrect assumptions and I responded. Now you’re just looking for a fight

How about, instead, you try to justify your position. Why must people see your glamour? How are you effected by what is on someone’s screen which you would have no knowledge of?

This request is as innocent as having a colour blind option. Yet you can’t give any valid answer as to how someone else’s option to toggle would impact your own experience.

No, instead, seems you just have a control issue

[Xylira]

You pointed your finger at me. That got the refutation you seek. You threw out incorrect assumptions and I responded. Now you’re just looking for a fight

Ahh, you mean like flippantly claiming that someone is being obstinate and willfully ignoring one side of the argument simply because they disagree with a position? Or how about then going on to talk down to them like they're just stupid and 'just don't get the facts', which said 'facts' were incorrect by the way. Do those not count as throwing out incorrect assumptions and trying to pick a fight?

How about, instead, you try to justify your position. Why must people see your glamour? How are you effected by what is on someone’s screen which you would have no knowledge of?

Because FFXIV is an MMORPG, a social game, and how players choose to present their characters to other players is an extension of that social aspect of the game. To allow disabling of others glamours undermines the social aspect of the game. I stated this already, but you have yet to acknowledge the point.

This request is as innocent as having a colour blind option. Yet you can’t give any valid answer as to how someone else’s option to toggle would impact your own experience.

Colour blind options do not disable a feature from the game, they are an accessibility feature. Also nice appeal to emotion. And it would impact my experience for knowing that my glamour is less valid. People like showing off their hard ground gear and other glamour, giving the ability to disable such detracts from the social aspect of the game.

No, instead, seems you just have a control issue

This is the funniest thing I've read all day.

So it's a control issue for me to have my character appear as I'd prefer, yet somehow not also a control issue for other people trying to force how they perceive everyone else around them. Flawless logic

Once again, you've entirely ignored the substance of my arguments, pretended like I made none, and resorted to ad hominems.

[Joven]

No Counter-argument XD
You just said "Just wear something else" which is basically telling someone what to do / a demand.
So....yeah.

And before you think to say "you weren't making a demand"
Then ill ask...did you really mean it? 'just wear something else' Or was it just some 'gotcha' to look clever?

I don't need a counter argument for such an idiotic retort.

Because FFXIV is an MMORPG, a social game, and how players choose to present their characters to other players is an extension of that social aspect of the game. To allow disabling of others glamours undermines the social aspect of the game. I stated this already, but you have yet to acknowledge the point.


Colour blind options do not disable a feature from the game, they are an accessibility feature. Also nice appeal to emotion. And it would impact my experience for knowing that my glamour is less valid. People like showing off their hard ground gear and other glamour, giving the ability to disable such detracts from the social aspect of the game.

Except, again, this doesn't disable anything.

[Xylira]

Except, again, this doesn't disable anything.

If it really did nothing, then why are you asking for it?

Just because you, personally, wouldn't be bothered by other people not seeing your glamours, doesn't mean other people don't take issue with it. I feel like a broken record, but FFXIV is an MMORPG, and MMORPGs are inherently social games. Part of the enjoyment of playing an MMORPG for many players is getting to customize their character for themselves and others to see. Adding an option to disable this undermines the whole point of the glamour system, and character customization in general.

[Joven]

If it really did nothing, then why are you asking for it?

Just because you, personally, wouldn't be bothered by other people not seeing your glamours, doesn't mean other people don't take issue with it. I feel like a broken record, but FFXIV is an MMORPG, and MMORPGs are inherently social games. Part of the enjoyment of playing an MMORPG for many players is getting to customize their character for themselves and others to see. Adding an option to disable this undermines the whole point of the glamour system, and player customization in general.

Because the way you're over blowing the idea of "disabling" glamours. I can already remove character names from my screen if I want to. To some their character's name is just as important as their outfit. I can mute their performances which could be seen as a form of expression just like glamours. I can even mute people outright from the chat. All of that and for some reason people draw the line at glamours.

[Xylira]

Because the way you're over blowing the idea of "disabling" glamours.

You're over blowing having to see other player's glamours.

[MaxCarnage]

You're over blowing having to see other player's glamours.

I feel like this is becoming a sunk-cost fallacy for you. Where you're just in too deep and there's no turning back now. It feels like there's a need to win coming from you. Just an observation.

[Kolaina]

Ahh, you mean like flippantly claiming that someone is being obstinate and willfully ignoring one side of the argument simply because they disagree with a position? Or how about then going on to talk down to them like they're just stupid and 'just don't get the facts', which said 'facts' were incorrect by the way. Do those not count as throwing out incorrect assumptions and trying to pick a fight

You were willfully ignoring one side of the argument because you won't even address it. You were saying that these people will somehow have control over what you wear, which is simply not the case. Also, the facts aren't incorrect just because you say they are. It is a fact that what people see on their screen has 0 effect on you. That is not debatable. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it untrue.

Because FFXIV is an MMORPG, a social game, and how players choose to present their characters to other players is an extension of that social aspect of the game. To allow disabling of others glamours undermines the social aspect of the game. I stated this already, but you have yet to acknowledge the point.

If these people are not associated with you, and don't chose to associate with you, then it should not matter to you. You are in their world as much as they are in yours. If people want to live in a medieval fantasy land where tanks are iron-clad and healers wear robes, there is 0 harm in that. That is how this game started, by the way, before glamour even existed.

And it would impact my experience for knowing that my glamour is less valid. People like showing off their hard ground gear and other glamour, giving the ability to disable such detracts from the social aspect of the game.

Except you wouldn't know, because you wouldn't know who has it turned on. You wouldn't know if anyone has it turned on, especially those that do not associate with you. You still get to wear your glamour, thinking you look good, and other people don't have to look. It's not like you don't exist. You are as you always were; just another player standing around. Unimportant to someone else's story.

Also nice appeal to emotion.

Way to try and accuse me of manipulation. Not appealing to emotion, I'm simply saying that it is a visual toggle. A comparison just to make it easier to understand.

This is the funniest thing I've read all day.

So it's a control issue for me to have my character appear as I'd prefer, yet somehow not also a control issue for other people trying to force how they perceive everyone else around them. Flawless logic

Once again, you've entirely ignored the substance of my arguments, pretended like I made none, and resorted to ad hominems.

Ad hominem seem to be a common buzzword on the forums. But I'll address what you say and I will repeat; You will still get to dress in your glamour. For someone to have control over you in this situation, they would have to take that away from you. Nothing is being removed from you, your character, or your experience. They are just enhancing their own experiences by removing god awful visuals. Which again, you would have no knowledge of the individual doing so. If that part bothers you so much, the not knowing, it sounds more like a psychological thing. And there is nothing that can stop you from feeling that way. But that does not change the in game experience for either party.

[Xylira]

You were willfully ignoring one side of the argument...

You can keep claiming that, but I've addressed it already. I get not liking some people's glamours. There's some glamours I'm not fond of, but I accept having to see them as part of the entirety of the system. Getting to pick and choose what you see from other people's glamours diminishes the entire point of the system.

If these people are not associated with you, and don't chose to associate with you, then it should not matter to you. You are in their world as much as they are in yours.

This goes both ways, you know that right? If someone doesn't like silly or 'immersion breaking' glamours, they can choose not to associate with people who use them. To go so far as to entirely wish to entirely dismiss seeing their personalized character look entirely is the more over reaching and controlling position to take.

If people want to live in a medieval fantasy land where tanks are iron-clad and healers wear robes, there is 0 harm in that. That is how this game started, by the way, before glamour even existed.

FFXIV is not a medieval fantasy land. It is FFXIV. There are medieval elements to it, yes, but there are also many other aesthetics from silly, even modern ones, and a broad range beyond that. Garlemald has more modern elements from trams to what even appear to be cars. We have air ships, guns, lasers, robots, etc. We have an entire raid trilogy based on a sci-fi setting that is part of the game for crying out loud. If someone is playing FFXIV for a strictly medieval aesthetic, or even specifically steampunk, then they picked the wrong game.

Except you wouldn't know, because you wouldn't know who has it turned on. You wouldn't know if anyone has it turned on, especially those that do not associate with you. You still get to wear your glamour, thinking you look good, and other people don't have to look. It's not like you don't exist. You are as you always were; just another player standing around. Unimportant to someone else's story..

But I would know that some people are because there's an option for it, which would diminish my enjoyment of the glamour system knowing that not everyone sees my character in their chosen glamour. Which would also actually discourage me and others from bothering spending money buying mogstation outfits knowing that people could just disable seeing them, and I don't think SE would be happy with that.

Way to try and accuse me of manipulation. Not appealing to emotion, I'm simply saying that it is a visual toggle. A comparison just to make it easier to understand.

There you go again, assuming I don't understand. I get your position, I simply reject it for my aforementioned reasons. Your equivalence to an accessibility feature is also false, they are not similar as one as disabling the glamour system is deconstructive to an existing system in the game, while the other enables accessibility to the entirety of the game.

Ad hominem seem to be a common buzzword on the forums.

Perhaps you should read up on it and understand why it keeps getting mentioned. When you dismiss the substance of what someone is stating to instead focus on disparaging the person saying it or how they're saying it, you're engaging in an ad hominem which is considered a bad faith argument.

But I'll address what you say and I will repeat; You will still get to dress in your glamour. For someone to have control over you in this situation, they would have to take that away from you. Nothing is being removed from you, your character, or your experience. They are just enhancing their own experiences by removing god awful visuals. Which again, you would have no knowledge of the individual doing so. If that part bothers you so much, the not knowing, it sounds more like a psychological thing. And there is nothing that can stop you from feeling that way. But that does not change the in game experience for either party.

The glamour system enhances one's control over how others, including themselves, see their character in the game world. To allow others to disable seeing said glamour is an erosion of the control which a player has over their character's visuals. It is, quite actually, a diminishment of one's control over their own character's appearance to other players. Now that may not bother you, which is entirely fine that's your personal preference, but it does bother other players.

[Krotoan]

But I would know that some people are because there's an option for it, which would diminish my enjoyment of the glamour system knowing that not everyone sees my character in their chosen glamour. Which would also actually discourage me and others from bothering spending money buying mogstation outfits knowing that people could just disable seeing them, and I don't think SE would be happy with that.

So it's important to you that people, even if they actively dislike what you chose, HAVE to see it?