Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[raelgun]

I have played the new WoW Dragonflight addon over the christmas holidays and were also in many Mythic+ Dungeons and also the Raid. I have rarely experienced such a toxic and unfriendly community.

The players were only looking into there different mod and addons (DPS Meter, Boss Mods, Mythic+ Tools ....) and when a player is not good enough, the group members gets in rage. I had it many, many times, that others or I were kicked from the group during the dungeon because we made less damage for the rest of the group members or the group was disbanded after the first death or when the run was too slow. At the end, I was very frustrated about the group behaviour in WoW and stopped playing dungeons and the raid at all.

In the meantime, I didn't renew my subscription for WoW and I don't want to experience such a community (only focused on numbers and in rage) anymore. That's why I'm against such tools in FFXIV and it would be a reason to cancel my subscription also in FFXIV.

This post has a one sided context, did you practice your class before entering m+? These dungeons are made to be challenges by intent so there is a requirement on your part. FF does a bad job at addressing getting players good

[SaitoHikari]

The funny thing is that if they still designed fights at least occasionally to offer features of indirect (not directly calculable) advantage (think Cover, etc.)... then there would actually be more to the game than just rDPS and aDPS.

But, no, they decided to trim the game down and down to literally just damage and whatever as directly and reliably as possible converts to it. (And it's not even a kind that differs "burst" from "sustained" except in that "burst" damage also does more damage overall, since there are no advantages to the less bursty jobs, nor particularly threatening short-term DPS checks to feature "burst" jobs despite any total damage advantages for the "sustained" ones. Given that, what other course would the community have reasonably taken?)

Now, why we somehow fell to the point that just because rDPS became the default metric (wherein party-independent comparisons become harder to make between buffers instead of between exploiters [the "selfish" jobs], instead of the inverse, and equal rDPS exploiters could still provide greatly significantly contributions to total party DPS [see the difference previously between PLD and DRK on their neck-and-neck fights/parses]) it became the only one that people cared about when aDPS, too, was right there to help inform the fuller picture... idk. That takes a special kind of self-imposed ignorance, especially for any claiming to be interested in that degree of optimization.

It's been a long ass time since I had to read anything like this, it's 2 AM where I live right now, and I feel like my head just exploded. What have I done?

Though I do remember being heavily displeased with how rDPS became the default metric, because of how it ultimately contributed to the shitshow that was the Stormblood job meta.

[Curisu]

It actually curbs toxic behavior, or at least having to put up with it. Finding out who isn't contributing appropriately and then removing them would be taking care of actual toxic behavior. Also saying it wouldn't make people better is beyond wrong, it's down right dangerous misinformation

Oh, it will not improve any players performance.
These who want to be better will look up guides and rotations to improve. And they do that already, they don't need a personal parser for it.

The player who don't care about anything will continue to not care.

[FireMage]

The player who don't care about anything will continue to not care.

They will when they get kicked more frequently

[SaitoHikari]

Oh, it will not improve any players performance.
These who want to be better will look up guides and rotations to improve. And they do that already, they don't need a personal parser for it.

The player who don't care about anything will continue to not care.

This is true in principle. The motivation to clear can come from anywhere.

I remember the only thing that made me break out of my shell about a year after I first started playing in Heavensward was that I really, REALLY wanted the Sephirot EX mount. But I was trying to get it at a time where most people had stopped farming it, and cross world PF didn't exist yet either, so all I had at the time were learning parties. After an entire afternoon of struggling, I managed to get one clear, but no mount, so I decided to put that off until next expansion. I didn't raid for real until some FC mates said they were looking for a ranged job for Sephirot EX farming a few months after that, which in reality turned out to be a surprise tryout for their raid group in A9S because they were that desperate. I kinda shrugged and went along with it, and somehow ended up in a static because I was somehow better than all of the Bards who actually did apply despite my confidence issues at the time.

They did get me that mount for my birthday afterwards though, without having to wait for the next expansion.

Things kind of happened from that point on, and two and a half years later, I ended up clearing an ultimate.

They will when they get kicked more frequently

Dude, you're not helping.

[FireMage]

Dude, you're not helping.

Facts are always helpful. What is wrong with removing the actually toxic players? The correct answer is nothing

[LianaThorne]

They will when they get kicked more frequently

Everything you've been saying is an assumption, not a fact. Personally if I was being shamed by you and kicked over my performance I'd just requeue, get through the content normally and send a report your way for harassment.

Maybe try being nice and helpful towards people who are underperformed, healthy communication goes a lot further than the tyrant approach. Even if by some miracle parsers were added, I highly doubt they would make it not against the ToS to kick someone for their DPS performance or harass them for it.

[FireMage]

Everything you've been saying is an assumption, not a fact. Personally if I was being shamed by you and kicked over my performance I'd just requeue, get through the content normally and send a report your way for harassment.

Maybe try being nice and helpful towards people who are underperformed, healthy communication goes a lot further than the tyrant approach. Even if by some miracle parsers were added, I highly doubt they would make it not against the ToS to kick someone for their DPS performance or harass them for it.

How can you be shamed when you were silently kicked? Hmmm? A kick which by the way would've been backed by the TOS. You really should read it, you can basically remove anyone for anything. And deadbeat players don't deserve communication, they deserved to be excised until they either learn to properly contribute (which is their personal responsibility btw) or they uninstall

[SaitoHikari]

Facts are always helpful. What is wrong with removing the actually toxic players? The correct answer is nothing

If it was a savage? Maybe. But most people form statics for savage difficulty for a reason.

If it was an EX though? DPS requirements for clearing an EX are low enough that the only thing that really matters there is that everyone does the mechanics correctly. If I saw someone pulling this shit while probably also failing mechanics themselves because they were too busy staring at the meter in the corner and/or mentally stewing at another party member, I'd be inclined to join in the effort to boot their ass first for actively disrupting the party. Doubly so if you're a DPS pulling this shit while simultaneously not out-DPSing me, a freaking Bard, which was usually the case during the amount of times I observed toxicity in EX parties.

[LianaThorne]

How can you be shamed when you were silently kicked? Hmmm? A kick which by the way would've been backed by the TOS. You really should read it, you can basically remove anyone for anything. And deadbeat players don't deserve communication, they deserved to be excised until they either learn to properly contribute (which is their personal responsibility btw) or they uninstall

So then question, how will people know their DPS is the issue and subsequently improve if you're silently kicking them and not giving a reason? That's another assumption on your part. For all you know said person could be thinking something else entirely like you kicked them because you didn't like their glamour (not gonna lie, have seen this happen a couple times lolol).