The Problem with Healer Feedback, and requested changes

[ASkellington]

That wasn't your point because it very much matters.

No it wasn't my point. Whether or not adapting to something easier or harder was never my argument. You keep trying to make it my argument, but it is yours.

My argument is that people can adapt. To use your own anology, yes it is easier to go from 1 mile to 1/2 a mile and do that for X years. But that also does not mean people cannot go from 1/2 mile to 1 mile or further. That is my argument, stop trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't even write.

And no. You once again got my anology wrong.

The equivilant of DoT Nuke on healer ( 2 1) to tanks is their 1-2-3. Doesn't matter if it isn't exactly a 1:1. Tanks start with 1 ability in a combo and they get the other 2 shortly there after. ALL HEALERS start with a 1 and then get their 2 after their heal.

If you're going to counter argue me, at least use what I presented instead of changing it.

[Renathras]

No it wasn't my point.

I...literally just said it wasn't your point.

Why are you repeating what I just said as if I didn't say it and you're proving me wrong?

Whether or not adapting to something easier or harder was never my argument. You keep trying to make it my argument, but it is yours.

This is literally what I just said - it's my argument to counter yours. Like...that's exactly what I said, yes. I said it was not your argument, it was a counter to your argument. A counter I was making to your argument. I'm not saying it's your argument. I'm saying it defeats your argument.

My argument is that people can adapt.

...and my counter is, your example was of people adapting to something being made easier. This proves people can adapt if we make things easier. But that makes no sense to use when you're arguing that things be made harder. You need an example in FFXIV's history where the game was made harder and people adapted and enjoyed it.

The example that comes to mind of the game being made harder was Gordias.

...and people hated it. Many people (Mr Happy for one) has said that literally almost killed the game a second time.0

To use your own anology, yes it is easier to go from 1 mile to 1/2 a mile and do that for X years. But that also does not mean people cannot go from 1/2 mile to 1 mile or further.

The argument here is that people are already going 1 mile. You can't use an argument that would apply to proposing they only go 1/2 mile as if it supports the argument that they go 5 miles.

That is my argument,

Correct.

I said that was your argument.

That you were trying to use something being made easier as an example of "people can adapt to change", and that I countered this with "there's a difference between people adapting to things being made easier vs them being made harder". You aren't proposing that things be made easier, therefore, that history cannot be used to support your proposal.

stop trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't even write.

I didn't put any words in your mouth.

Thankfully.

I literally said the things you're now saying that I didn't say.

The equivilant of DoT Nuke on healer ( 2 1) to tanks is their 1-2-3. Doesn't matter if it isn't exactly a 1:1.

Concur. It's just filler. People use add-ons all the time to make the Tank 1-2-3 into a 1-1-1 because they find it boring and tedious.

If you're going to counter argue me, at least use what I presented instead of changing it.

So...exactly what I did do.

Here, let me clarify so we're on the same page:

Your argument:

We've had change in the past, people can adapt.

Your evidence:

We had a change, and people adapted.

My counter(s):

1) The case you're citing was a case where things were made easier: SEE (2)

2) A past of making things easier cannot be used to predict the results of making things harder.

3) We have a past instance of making things harder, and it nearly killed the game.

Does that make more sense?

[ASkellington]

I
Your argument:

We've had change in the past, people can adapt.

Your evidence:

We had a change, and people adapted.

My counter(s):

1) The case you're citing was a case where things were made easier: SEE (2)

2) A past of making things easier cannot be used to predict the results of making things harder.

3) We have a past instance of making things harder, and it nearly killed the game.

Does that make more sense?

1. is still irrelevant. The point is people can adapt EITHER WAY. Just because one is easier to adapt to doesn't mean people can't adapt.

2. Yes it can. The point is whether or not people CAN adapt not if they WILL or if they will have an easy time to adapting. That was never my argument. And I said as such. And again, it's not gonna matter in lower level content because SE purposefully makes it so it doesn't matter. Meaning if a person doesn't want to use the extra dps options to make a boss in a dungeon go faster, no one can make them and if they get harassed and I'll misquote myself again: that is what the report button is for.

In content that it DOES matter - EX and Savage it's already expected of you.

3. The only thing in recent memory that made things harder was this current savage tier, because SE decided to up mitigation requirements that the rest of the party had to deal with (because healers don't have things like addle and feint) and had 0 training with else where because SE can't scale content properly. Or rather, they don't want to.

SB level of difficulty isn't too much to ask for.

You keep saying we're arguing to change all the healers for nothing more than enjoyment, well personally I think you're wanting to keep WHM the same for no other reason than enjoyment yourself. That's fine and all, but you can't say we can't use enjoyment personal or not when you are also doing the same.