Euphrosyne feels a bit lacking

[Ath192]

I agree, the Devs pay way too much attention to the complaining that happens on this forum in regards to difficulty. A lot of players don't want the game to be a punishing hell hole of wipes that makes uber casual people quit, me included. But we also don't want the game to be a snooze fest steam roll.

I highly enjoyed the Orbonne Monastery difficulty when it came out, and people were.... wait for it..... actually communicating and collaborating in chat to defeat the boss. What a novel concept in an MMO. unfortunately, the disadvantages that came with that is that the content was dead after it wasn't popular anymore because noone wanted to run it and risk wiping.

Maybe the solution to this problem is to make it difficult like Orbonne Monastery while the loot cap exists and the raid is current, and after the loot cap drops in the same patch give it a 20% echo that makes it a snoozefest, that way people won't mind running it for new players in the future.

Surely their design can standardize a 20 minute runtime for alliance raids on average with Echo tweaks so people don't cheat their way into CT all the time. But while its the hot item. Give us satisfying raids please.

[PangTong]

I agree, the Devs pay way too much attention to the complaining that happens on this forum in regards to difficulty. A lot of players don't want the game to be a punishing hell hole of wipes that makes uber casual people quit, me included. But we also don't want the game to be a snooze fest steam roll.

I highly enjoyed the Orbonne Monastery difficulty when it came out, and people were.... wait for it..... actually communicating and collaborating in chat to defeat the boss. What a novel concept in an MMO. unfortunately, the disadvantages that came with that is that the content was dead after it wasn't popular anymore because noone wanted to run it and risk wiping.

Maybe the solution to this problem is to make it difficult like Orbonne Monastery while the loot cap exists and the raid is current, and after the loot cap drops in the same patch give it a 20% echo that makes it a snoozefest, that way people won't mind running it for new players in the future.

Surely their design can standardize a 20 minute runtime for alliance raids on average with Echo tweaks so people don't cheat their way into CT all the time. But while its the hot item. Give us satisfying raids please.

I feel the same way. If the reason the raids are so easy is because of some hypothetical distant future where totally new and inexperienced players struggle to get through old story content, then couldn't they at least wait until that future is real to nerf it? While it's current content, it is expected that the active playerbase will be running it regularly, so even if a player is not good enough on their own, there are enough competent players running the content that they can be carried through no problem. This is the whole reason the Echo system exists!

That was the case throughout all of Heavensward and Stormblood, I don't know why in Shadowbringers they decided Alliance Raids should be total pushovers. Overcorrection from Orbonne maybe? But even then, Nier was not as easy as Myths of the Realm so far, and no one complained that Nier was too hard. So I don't know why they made it even easier.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I feel the same way. If the reason the raids are so easy is because of some hypothetical distant future where totally new and inexperienced players struggle to get through old story content, then couldn't they at least wait until that future is real to nerf it? While it's current content, it is expected that the active playerbase will be running it regularly, so even if a player is not good enough on their own, there are enough competent players running the content that they can be carried through no problem. This is the whole reason the Echo system exists!

That was the case throughout all of Heavensward and Stormblood, I don't know why in Shadowbringers they decided Alliance Raids should be total pushovers. Overcorrection from Orbonne maybe? But even then, Nier was not as easy as Myths of the Realm so far, and no one complained that Nier was too hard. So I don't know why they made it even easier.

People thought the Nier raids were hard?



News to me. I remember a lot of people hating on them for other reasons, like "this should have just been an event, why did they make a collab our alliance raids for a whole expansion" type complaints. Never "omg raid tier so hard"



Mhach raids were also easy. Only annoying boss was ozma because people can't mechanics.

[Bunnycake]

People thought the Nier raids were hard?



News to me. I remember a lot of people hating on them for other reasons, like "this should have just been an event, why did they make a collab our alliance raids for a whole expansion" type complaints. Never "omg raid tier so hard"



Mhach raids were also easy. Only annoying boss was ozma because people can't mechanics.

If I'm not mistaken, back then didn't the first boss from Dun Scaith blew you off the platform when it appears? Seeing people randomly go to the middle before it shows up makes me think they're gonna be blown off lol. For Nier imho the only raid I find fun is Puppet's Bunker.

[TheMightyMollusk]

People thought the Nier raids were hard?

Mostly they felt like the bosses had too much HP for what they did, so the fights dragged. That and the second boss in the Bunker, but that was mostly trolls aiming the stack laser at other parties.

Not really digging Euphrosyne, but I wasn't that thrilled by Aglaia either. The Twelve just aren't a very interesting topic to me, and the gear isn't my style, so running it feels more like an obligation than actually wanting to do it.

[Gember]

If I can be honest here; the pacing of all Endwalker content has been kind of "off" after coming out of the woodworks of Shadowbringers. Like don't get me wrong; about all of the dungeons, trials, raids, and other things they gave us were all very beautiful and the fight designs were well thought out when it came to symbolism to lore. However.. the pacing feels off. Its always felt off since The Tower of Zot.

I do not know if this is the cause of the stat squish, the 2 minute job design, the way the fights were designed, or something else. It feels like the bosses take their time on mechanics compared to before, and they repeat a lot of them as well. I am not saying they didn't do that before, but it feels the repeats are coming in more frequent. I still can't put my finger on what is exactly tilting the gameplay a little.

Also, when Endwalker released; I was playing as a healer as usual. They focused heavy on mitigation on fights more so than before. A lot of jobs got a lot of mitigation tools compared to before. I felt it pretty heavily as a healer. I just think the fight design of this game shifted, and everyone can absolutely feel its changes. Not all of it is bad; but its kind of shifting from one good flavor to another. Of course its subjective on which flavor tastes the best for players.

Am I the only one who felt this way?

Euphrosyne is no different from what has changed. I do agree that maybe they could buff the bosses HP a little, but not by much. As some mentioned here; once the majority of the community learns these fights; the challenge is almost going to be near 0. All of the new players who come in will just follow the crowd as usual. I know this because that is exactly what Aglaia is right now.

[ForteNightshade]

I agree, the Devs pay way too much attention to the complaining that happens on this forum in regards to difficulty. A lot of players don't want the game to be a punishing hell hole of wipes that makes uber casual people quit, me included. But we also don't want the game to be a snooze fest steam roll.

I highly enjoyed the Orbonne Monastery difficulty when it came out, and people were.... wait for it..... actually communicating and collaborating in chat to defeat the boss. What a novel concept in an MMO. unfortunately, the disadvantages that came with that is that the content was dead after it wasn't popular anymore because noone wanted to run it and risk wiping.

Maybe the solution to this problem is to make it difficult like Orbonne Monastery while the loot cap exists and the raid is current, and after the loot cap drops in the same patch give it a 20% echo that makes it a snoozefest, that way people won't mind running it for new players in the future.

Surely their design can standardize a 20 minute runtime for alliance raids on average with Echo tweaks so people don't cheat their way into CT all the time. But while its the hot item. Give us satisfying raids please.

This is precisely where I'm at too. Even as someone who does all the high end content, I still enjoy a good chunk of the more casual stuff. 24 mans were always a highlight but since Shadowbringers, they've all been exceptionally easy. Their excuse with YorHa was they deliberately undertuned it because of potential players who were fans of those games but not necessarily experienced with MMOs. Admittedly, it's a pretty flimsy excuse considering by level 80, you'd expect people to have the basics down but c'est la vie. I and many others expected more of a return to Ivalice or Mhach but instead we seem to have gotten an even easier (or on par) 24 man series with the Twelve. While I do find the raids far and away better than YorHa, the lack of even the slightest difficulty really brings them down. I'm not looking for a wipe fest in casual content but I'd expect something above kindergartener level for the 24 man.

Once again, it just feels like Endwalker is doubling down even harder on making the game incredibly easy save for very few exceptions.

mostly the problem is that they've really undertuned boss health.
If they could get an HP bar buff and move faster on mechanics it might pick up.

While I agree, they don't really have the mechanical variance to justify too much of an HP increase. A bigger issue is the bosses spend WAY too much time showing off their gimmick before ramping up. Rhalgr had the same problem. By the time he finally starts mixing up his portal mechanic, he's well over half dead. Upping their HP would help but I also think they just need to add more mechanics and trim the "learning process" down. We shouldn't be waiting upwards of 50% of a boss' HP before they get going.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Their excuse with YorHa was they deliberately undertuned it because of potential players who were fans of those games but not necessarily experienced with MMOs. Admittedly, it's a pretty flimsy excuse considering by level 80, you'd expect people to have the basics down but c'est la vie.

I saw a gladiator trying to tank in Abyssos the other day. Never assume what you'll find in Duty Finder.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons]

I agree, the Devs pay way too much attention to the complaining that happens on this forum in regards to difficulty. A lot of players don't want the game to be a punishing hell hole of wipes that makes uber casual people quit, me included. But we also don't want the game to be a snooze fest steam roll.

I highly enjoyed the Orbonne Monastery difficulty when it came out, and people were.... wait for it..... actually communicating and collaborating in chat to defeat the boss. What a novel concept in an MMO. unfortunately, the disadvantages that came with that is that the content was dead after it wasn't popular anymore because noone wanted to run it and risk wiping.

Maybe the solution to this problem is to make it difficult like Orbonne Monastery while the loot cap exists and the raid is current, and after the loot cap drops in the same patch give it a 20% echo that makes it a snoozefest, that way people won't mind running it for new players in the future.

Surely their design can standardize a 20 minute runtime for alliance raids on average with Echo tweaks so people don't cheat their way into CT all the time. But while its the hot item. Give us satisfying raids please.

i mean to be honest it doesn't really help the fact that all the Ivalice raid gear was pretty mid glamor wise