The Problem with Healer Feedback, and requested changes

[Renathras]

???? No. Not even close.

Yes, yes even close. In fact, so close it's exactly true.

You're making the case that every WHM player [or those of whichever other job you'd chose to sacrifice] wants to have access only to the shallowest of kits and that

No I'm not, and have never in fact once made that case.

--despite their being able to use as much or as little of a kit as they like--

And still clear Savage?

But you've provided no evidence for any of those claims or their underlying warrants.

Why would I provide evidence for claims I have not made?

You've provided no rationale as to why players would be unable to simply choose how much of a given kit to engage with and ignore what they don't.

Yes, I have - because unless the damage difference between optimal and suboptimal play was trivial, they would not be able to clear higher end content unless they engaged with it. Something even some of you have said either on your own or in response to my questions. And some have either said in their opinion or in their "I even actually want that" desire, those players shouldn't be allowed to clear content - that they can currently clear in the live game - unless they change their gameplay to the new style. This is actively taking away content from people.

You've provided no rationale as to why having a kit larger than one wishes to engage with significantly worsens a user's experience.

Yes, I have - because not engaging in it removes their viability in content they can currently engage with, clear, and enjoy.

You've provided no evidence that most WHM players like being 'just basic' and that keeping the job low-ceiling would therefore be preferable over giving them more to work with if they so desire.

I've never made that claim. Again, why would I provide evidence for claims I have not made?

You've provided no evidence that people pick jobs for specifically being simple or having low ceiling

Again, why would I provide evidence for claims I have not made?

That said, I have in past discussions provided this evidence, and could again. Lucky Bancho numbers show that across all roles (not just healer) the most played Jobs in the game are the ones with the simplest rotations. While we would need more studies to absolutely prove it, this has been true over multiple Lucky Bancho censuses, to the point the general community analysis of those data agrees that it is highly likely players often do, in fact, pick Jobs based on ease of play and simplicity. This is especially true for alt-Jobs, but seems to bee true on the whole.

Not "always do". "often do"

over their vibe, flow, features, and/or aesthetics

I've never made this argument, either. Again, why would I provide evidence for claims I have not made?

In fact, I've explicitly acknowledged that some people would be upset having to change Jobs and have to ask themselves which is more important, aesthetic or gameplay they enjoy. But this is still better than your solution of changing all healers which means people that don't like your gameplay GET NOTHING and have to quit the game.

(which is the only way you'd be favoring the total healer population as a whole by screwing over WHMs [or whichever other job you'd choose to sacrifice]).

Again, this is an argument I've never made.

At no time have I argued to "screw over" WHM's or other Jobs. To my way of thinking, changing the Jobs is screwing them over. To my way of thinking, making 3(4) Jobs more complicated for you would be screwing over current SCH, dAST/nAST, and SGE players because many of us don't find you're preferred gameplay fun. All of us would be screwed and have to swap to WHM. If anything, my proposal is screwing over people by sacrificing SCH, AST, and SGE to you. From my perspective, the Jobs made more complex are the ones being sacrificed and screwed over.

...and my proposal is even willing to do that in order to make you happy. This seems to be something you're not getting.

To those who do not share your view, it's changing the healers to be more complex that is breaking them, screwing them, and sacrificing them. WHM, to us, would be the only healer NOT being sacrificed and screwed over. That is what you aren't understanding.

It would be a sacrifice - I'd be sacrificing SGE, AST, and SGE - just so you can have more fun. The only thing is, it means that at least people who don't enjoy your type of gameplay can still enjoy the content they're doing right now without losing out on it entirely.

...then what would it possibly matter than WHM isn't likewise so trivial in its kit? Why does it have to be neutered

It's not being neutered. Read above. It'd be the only not NOT being neutered. We'd be neutering SCH, AST, and SGE by making them needlessly complex so that you can have more fun. WHM would be the only true healer left for those that don't like your gameplay. WHM would be the only not-neutered healer.

if using a greater extent of its available tools, nuances, optimizations, etc., is unneeded?

Again: You're saying WHM's not casting anything but Glare could still clear Savage/Extreme without weighing down their party?

It's not the "only solution." It's not even a solution whatsoever.

It's not only the only solution that works, it's far far FAR better than yours.

.

You're saying I say "all" this or "all those" when I say "some" or "many". My arguments fully admit some people would be losing out. The thing you're not admitting is that, under your proposal, more people would be losing out, and they'd be losing out more completely since they wouldn't have any way to do the things they can already do today as they do them today.

.

Here's the October 2022 Job population summary, btw:



Note that outside of JP specifically for Tanks with DRK, every other region has WAR, WHM, SAM/RPR, DNC (though all Ranged are easy, I guess), and SMN (then RDM) as the most played Jobs of each role/sub-role. These are also known as the easiest to play.

Notice where the most difficult to play - arguably PLD (with its half-dozen cursed openers), AST, MNK and NIN, and BLM - are all the least played Jobs in each role.

Many of those have aesthetics people love (like PLD and BLM), yet are still the least played. This is highly suggestive players do, in fact, consider complexity/difficulty in Job decisions.

Original Reddit discussion thread on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus..._october_2022/

Do note, as I said above, that this is not 100% proof - one could argue there are secondary effects like some people might prefer a complex Job but play RDM for their utility to their raid group - but it's suggestive that at least a good chunk of the player base does, in fact, like easier and simpler Jobs.

And note this was people with ilevel >610/615 as of October 2022, so this is people playing high end content, not just people doing Normals or leveling or just having a Job they got to 90 in 6.0 and haven't touched since. Specifically, a 610/615 ilevel weapon equipped. So that would have been Savage Raiders and Extreme heroes with Barbie Ex weapons/clears.