Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Zebraoracle]

Or people can just have different experiences? I have a few FFXIV characters, all played at different times. I've also played WoW for years, all the way back in classic. I've never said I was the spokesperson for the FFXIV community, but even if my 34 summoner was my only character, that doesn't invalidate the experience I had/have playing either game. Hence why I said I hard disagree, versus "you're wrong." It's perfectly fine to disagree with me, it's not fine to try and invalidate me.

Please do not twist my words around, thanks. I never said your experience didn't matter, I said if you're only level 34 then you've not had enough exposure to the game to have a COMPLETELY educated opinion. This isn't invalidating you. It's saying you literally have not been exposed to the game long enough to know as much about it as you could.

[Kira619]

Please do not twist my words around, thanks. I never said your experience didn't matter, I said if you're only level 34 then you've not had enough exposure to the game to have a COMPLETELY educated opinion. This isn't invalidating you. It's saying you literally have not been exposed to the game long enough to know as much about it as you could.

It’s really odd, for some reason I have a posting limit on how much I can post a day? Not really sure why, but essentially the post does attempt to invalidate my experience. You specifically stated “maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough with 14's community to have a completely educated opinion, otherwise you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise.” Yet I already stated that I’ve had two experiences with random individuals in the FFXIV community that supersede anything I’ve experienced in WoW. So even if all of my experiences, going forward, was negative, I’d still would have had two experiences that surpassed any random encounter in WoW. So to say to “maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough” is essentially invalidating the two encounters that rose FFXIV above WoW’s community in my eyes. Now you may not mean to invalidate my experience, but that statement still does that.

Fair enough. But it's not really fair to say "mindsets that closer align with WoW" when there are plenty of 14 players who have never touched WoW and are aware of the toxic undercurrent of 14.

One doesn’t have to play WoW to have a mindset reminiscent of WoW’s mentality. It just means you have traits that’s seen within the WoW community. So it’s not surprising that the complaints they say are the same complaints I’ve seen used within the WoW Community towards either FFXIV players or casual players in general.

[Midareyukki]

It’s really odd, for some reason I have a posting limit on how much I can post a day? Not really sure why, but essentially the post does attempt to invalidate my experience. You specifically stated “maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough with 14's community to have a completely educated opinion, otherwise you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise.” Yet I already stated that I’ve had two experiences with random individuals in the FFXIV community that supersede anything I’ve experienced in WoW. So even if all of my experiences, going forward, was negative, I’d still would have had two experiences that surpassed any random encounter in WoW. So to say to “maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough” is essentially invalidating the two encounters that rose FFXIV above WoW’s community in my eyes. Now you may not mean to invalidate my experience, but that statement still does that.

Why are you conflating Experience with Experiences?

Dictionary definition 1: [uncountable] the knowledge and skill that you have gained through doing something for a period of time; the process of gaining this.

Example: "I have invested enough hours into this specific class to have experience in it".

Dictionary definition 2: [countable] an event or activity that affects you in some way

Example: "My experiences playing this class in Savage have molded my view of its usefulness".

In short, no, at least not where you quote him. He didn't devalue your countable experiences, he merely said your countable experiences may have been negative due to you not being incountably experienced in the game.

If a new player is inexperienced, then their experiences will be those of learning and difficulty.
If a player is experienced, then they likely have amassed several experiences, both positive and negative.

At no point are you being invalidated whatsoever. You, are, however, being told virtually this:

"You've had weird moments that have changed your perception of the community. You sure it wasn't you, or are the people you hung out with really that bad? Could even have been a case of misfortune, who knows."

Not that you suck and your experiences and experience overall doesn't matter.

[Kira619]

In short, no, at least not where you quote him. He didn't devalue your countable experiences, he merely said your countable experiences may have been negative due to you not being incountably experienced in the game.

If a new player is inexperienced, then their experiences will be those of learning and difficulty.
If a player is experienced, then they likely have amassed several experiences, both positive and negative.

Wait what? I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding or are just trying to debate, because this post largely doesn't correlate with what I said. Nowhere did I say I had a few negative experiences in FFXIV. I've said I've had nothing but positive experiences in FFXIV. I've also said I've had 2 experiences in FFXIV that blows away any random encounter I had in WoW.

So, it would make no sense for him to say, "your countable experiences may have been negative due to you not being incountably experienced in the game." because I never said I had negative experiences in FFXIV. I have had a TON of negative experiences playing WoW. But the point of my previous posts was to indicate why, for me, I feel that WoW's community is more toxic.

Secondly,

At no point are you being invalidated whatsoever. You, are, however, being told virtually this:

"You've had weird moments that have changed your perception of the community. You sure it wasn't you, or are the people you hung out with really that bad? Could even have been a case of misfortune, who knows. "

Not that you suck and your experiences and experience overall doesn't matter.

This is the literal definition of invalidate. Since we're using definitions:

Invalidate -
1.
make (an argument, statement, or theory) unsound or erroneous.

2.
deprive (an official document or procedure) of legal efficacy because of contravention of a regulation or law.

Fits smack dab with the first definition. With that said, I don't believe that was what he was saying in that post. Because your interpretation would have a much stronger leaning in the invalidation and "splaining" department due to it trying to redirect my viewpoint of seeing WoW as more toxic environment possibly back at me and saying I may have done something wrong. I do not believe that was his intentions.

I believe his intentions was to say, "If this level 34 character is your only character, then you should not try and form an opinion on FFXIV toxicity because you haven't been in the game long enough."

It is still invalidation because it's saying "Those two experiences you treasured should be pushed to the side. You will likely run into experiences as you continue to play the game that will change your mind."

And such, I asked to not be invalidated. The whole "You can't have an opinion, you're a noob" is invalidation. I'm 100% okay with people disagreeing with me, but not that.

[Midareyukki]

And such, I asked to not be invalidated. The whole "You can't have an opinion, you're a noob" is invalidation. I'm 100% okay with people disagreeing with me, but not that.

Did he say that? Did he mean that?

Because you just went on a gigantic spiel to counter me... and yet the whole point remains.

All he said was that your opinions come from an inexperienced mindset. So naturally, once you don't have the facts, your point of view, no matter how valid it may appear to you, is tainted by misinformation and biases.

So rather than say "lol you're a noob you get no opinion", I took from what you quoted that he told you "Consider otherwise".

So please. Rather than getting butthurt that someone is pointing out "Yo, you might have it wrong here", please actually stop to consider that people are NOT OUT TO GET YOU.

[Kira619]

Did he say that? Did he mean that?

Because you just went on a gigantic spiel to counter me... and yet the whole point remains.

All he said was that your opinions come from an inexperienced mindset. So naturally, once you don't have the facts, your point of view, no matter how valid it may appear to you, is tainted by misinformation and biases.

So rather than say "lol you're a noob you get no opinion", I took from what you quoted that he told you "Consider otherwise".

So please. Rather than getting butthurt that someone is pointing out "Yo, you might have it wrong here", please actually stop to consider that people are NOT OUT TO GET YOU.

1st. there are no "facts" when it comes to considering if an environment is toxic, because the idea of toxic isn't factually based. It's entirely based on the opinion of a person and their morals. This is largely why we're seeing two different viewpoints between what the majority of WoW like mindset finds toxic (such as toxic positivity), and what the majority of FFXIV like mindset find toxic (such as unsolicited advice.) So, every person's viewpoint on toxic here will be based on the biases and opinion of what matters to them.

2nd, Did I say that he was out to get me? Of course not. Asking someone to not invalidate me has nothing to do with them having a vendetta against me. I largely believed he may not have understood how his statement or the mindset you posted above is invalidating, because as indicated in my previous post, it clearly is. But I never indicated his statement meant he had a vendetta against me.

With that said, I can already tell that you find the mindset, which is invalidating, as acceptable due to idea that one is inexperienced. So, there's no further point in me discussing this with you. Take care.

[Midareyukki]

1st. there are no "facts" when it comes to considering if an environment is toxic, because the idea of toxic isn't factually based. It's entirely based on the opinion of a person and their morals. This is largely why we're seeing two different viewpoints between what the majority of WoW like mindset finds toxic (such as toxic positivity), and what the majority of FFXIV like mindset find toxic (such as unsolicited advice.) So, every person's viewpoint on toxic here will be based on the biases and opinion of what matters to them.

2nd, Did I say that he was out to get me? Of course not. Asking someone to not invalidate me has nothing to do with them having a vendetta against me. I largely believed he may not have understood how his statement or the mindset you posted above is invalidating, because as indicated in my previous post, it clearly is. But I never indicated his statement meant he had a vendetta against me.

With that said, I can already tell that you find the mindset, which is invalidating, as acceptable due to idea that one is inexperienced. So, there's no further point in me discussing this with you. Take care.

If you're going to be that aggressive, then I concur.

Arguing with you is about as productive as arguing with an actual physical dagger.

No, I am misled.

A dagger at least has a use. You, on the other hand, are dull.

(I hope you at least come to understand the difference between saying you're wrong and should consider other points of view, and people actively attacking you. I don't think you do at this point, probably a byproduct of being so inexperienced.)