Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[KeshLives]

Yes, an irony that hasn't gone unnoticed here or among other communities at large.



This has got to be grade A satire, right?

Have you really not seen any of the dozen+ Titanragingfistbro/Ativan/Etc., troll threads here, specifically on those subjects?

Our mods, meanwhile, are inexistant outside of taking down occasional 200+ page megathreads if they start getting too constructive and/or coordinated in their criticisms.

Oh, the forums isn't really where the difference is. By definition, the forums are full of people who are there to complain.

The difference is in actual behavior in-game, and, frankly, the people who claim that WoW isn't toxic? They would fit right in there, and don't notice the toxicity from there...because they're part of it, and a main part of the source of it. Of course it's not toxic to them. They LIKE that kind of atmosphere, and they enjoy it. To them, that's how they want it all the time. They want to point out other people that they can be superior to. That's heaven to them. They just want to make that the norm in FFXIV.

The only saving grace here is that FFXIV won't allow it past a point. I think the devs main stance against damage meters and the like is that they know that if they were built in, they'd have to spend a lot more time (and money) enforcing the rules against mostly the people who clamored the most for the said damage meters and other similar things.

That way lies madness. No, let's not go there.

[Shurrikhan]

Oh, the forums isn't really where the difference is. By definition, the forums are full of people who are there to complain.

The difference is in actual behavior in-game, and, frankly, the people who claim that WoW isn't toxic? They would fit right in there, and don't notice the toxicity from there...because they're part of it, and a main part of the source of it. Of course it's not toxic to them. They LIKE that kind of atmosphere, and they enjoy it. To them, that's how they want it all the time. They want to point out other people that they can be superior to. That's heaven to them. They just want to make that the norm in FFXIV.

Ngl, that seems like projective xenophobia, and a conclusion hardly tenable if one had played significant amounts of that game.

Your argument here relies on intentionally conflating a term. You fully admit that (a long-time, pragmatic viewpoint on what constitutes) "toxicity" in WOW would be different from toxicity here. Yet you apply the less fitting / stricter definition only in one direction, to the effect of "XIV good; other bad."

Toxicity there, for instance, might include abusing legalities, such as leveraging the letter of the law to corrupt its spirit (to bait, despite and through obvious social breech of social contract yourself, others into making a minor but punishable breech of ToA). It might involve entitlement, such as by wasting everyone else's time in expecting them to carry one through their gross lack of preparation well outside expectable deviation from norms on the mere basis that they chose to use a random matchmaker (and thereby, somehow, specifically to be grouped with that specific person rather than just anyone within reasonable estimates), or --on the opposite extreme-- wasting everyone's time by holding them to an unreasonably standard before making any significant step forward. It might involve harassment as determined through malicious intent, regardless of whether it be spoken, written, emoted, or even just through repeated and conspicuous presence not otherwise reasonably warrantable.

On the other hand, it won't likely include things like giving advice, even if it's sternly worded (since most would reasonably expect you to have equipped more than just your basic single-target combo... by level 40, let alone 90), or to dodge AoEs that were clearly telegraphed more two seconds prior to their actuation. It might not include giving complete tacit powers over to the tank even in content too trivial for that to have any significant advantage on the mere basis that doing otherwise might invoke either communication (since only silence can risk no toxicity, I guess?) or a faux pas.

Would WoW's community then be toxic by WoW's standards (or, the most commonly shared stances upon them)? Some parts of it, probably... which the vast majority of that community wouldn't then be happy with. (They tend not to be happy, either, with systems that give rise to that -- see that community's rough consensus against the most notable consequences of failure being dumped on just 1 in 5 players in any given M+ run due to how keystones work.)

But, so would XIV's community. Probably more so. Granted, that wouldn't then be a comparison wholly fair to XIV, either. You'd need to find some understanding of "toxicity" shared between both ends and compare from that, not tossing frameworks from a "police state's" approach onto a comparatively "anarchical" one in full and with no further context.

If you're to contrast communities on the basis of a shared term of unshared meaning, wouldn't it make more sense to do so only on the basis of the meanings therein that are shared across each community involved in that comparison? Frankly, anything less seems intended, from the start, to generate only skewed results -- rather disingenuous, to say the least.

[Magikazam]

Oh, the forums isn't really where the difference is. By definition, the forums are full of people who are there to complain.

The difference is in actual behavior in-game, and, frankly, the people who claim that WoW isn't toxic? They would fit right in there, and don't notice the toxicity from there...because they're part of it, and a main part of the source of it. Of course it's not toxic to them. They LIKE that kind of atmosphere, and they enjoy it. To them, that's how they want it all the time. They want to point out other people that they can be superior to. That's heaven to them. They just want to make that the norm in FFXIV.

The only saving grace here is that FFXIV won't allow it past a point. I think the devs main stance against damage meters and the like is that they know that if they were built in, they'd have to spend a lot more time (and money) enforcing the rules against mostly the people who clamored the most for the said damage meters and other similar things.

That way lies madness. No, let's not go there.

Nice strawman. While I agree WoW had a more ''toxic'' environment, people also had thicker skin. FFXIV has its own kind of toxicity. The only major difference really is that people will say that you don't know shit and that you're wrong instead of just insulting you directly.

Also im kinda tired of how FFXIV just use WoW has a scapegoat for basically anything, to a point I doubt some people even played WoW and just start assuming those few ultra-toxic outlier behaviors was the normal things.

Hell whenever you critize something about the game people usually play the ''But WoW had this thing but worst'' cards