Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Kira619]

Yes, an irony that hasn't gone unnoticed here or among other communities at large.

Oh that's not surprising at all. No community will ever say their community is outright bad. Because too many people tie their identities to the gaming communities they associate with. FFXIV has constantly had a reputation of having a pleasant community. You combine that with the fact that no other MMO cracked even the nomination and it's not surprising that other communities are getting the "my poop smell like roses" moment lol.

I've always put it this way. Did you think folks in the south who endorsed slavery saw themselves as villains? Did you think folks who did not want integration saw themselves as bad? So why in the world should we expect folks who are toxic today to self reflect.
History is constantly repeating itself and has shown that only when generations pass that people reflect and be like "Yoo, that group was messed up."

This has got to be grade A satire, right?

Have you really not seen any of the dozen+ Titanragingfistbro/Ativan/Etc., troll threads here, specifically on those subjects?

Our mods, meanwhile, are inexistant outside of taking down occasional 200+ page megathreads if they start getting too constructive and/or coordinated in their criticisms.

Honestly it's not, I've just never seen those threads. Though right now, I can go to the WoW main general discussion thread and see 4 threads in the last 24 hours dealing with this. So even if it does happen here, it's definitely not as frequent.

[Zebraoracle]

Oh that's not surprising at all. No community will ever say their community is outright bad. Because too many people tie their identities to the gaming communities they associate with. FFXIV has constantly had a reputation of having a pleasant community. You combine that with the fact that no other MMO cracked even the nomination and it's not surprising that other communities are getting the "my poop smell like roses" moment lol.

I've always put it this way. Did you think folks in the south who endorsed slavery saw themselves as villains? Did you think folks who did not want integration saw themselves as bad? So why in the world should we expect folks who are toxic today to self reflect.
History is constantly repeating itself and has shown that only when generations pass that people reflect and be like "Yoo, that group was messed up."

I think you're missing Shurrikhan's point. 14's community is known for its toxic positivity and passive aggressiveness.

Generally, the random person you're going to run into in WoW or 14 is going to be anywhere from pleasant to completely neutral, but whereas when you run into an unpleasant person in WoW you're more likely to run into someone who doesn't care about TOS rules against harassment and is more likely to react aggressively. In 14, the TOS is so strict and punishing that the unpleasant people adopt a more passive aggressive stance where they can still be toxic, just in such a way that they can't easily be hit by the TOS book of judgement. And then you have people that will mad whenever someone tries to offer advice, you have enablers for leeches ("let them play how they want!", "let's just get this done guys ", etc). You have idiotic drama outside of duties with things like stalkers who can't easily be reported because TECHNICALLY they're not breaking any rules, but boy howdy do they constantly make the person they're stalking uncomfortable and upset. At one point the hunt community was EXTREMELY toxic, from people thinking they're entitled to A and S rank marks to groups of mark spawners and train conductors enacting blacklists against people who didn't follow along with the clique, I don't know how it is now but in ShB it was embarrassing how awful that community was.

[Kira619]

I think you're missing Shurrikhan's point. 14's community is known for its toxic positivity and passive aggressiveness.

Generally, the random person you're going to run into in WoW or 14 is going to be anywhere from pleasant to completely neutral, but whereas when you run into an unpleasant person in WoW you're more likely to run into someone who doesn't care about TOS rules against harassment and is more likely to react aggressively. In 14, the TOS is so strict and punishing that the unpleasant people adopt a more passive aggressive stance where they can still be toxic, just in such a way that they can't easily be hit by the TOS book of judgement. And then you have people that will mad whenever someone tries to offer advice, you have enablers for leeches ("let them play how they want!", "let's just get this done guys ", etc). You have idiotic drama outside of duties with things like stalkers who can't easily be reported because TECHNICALLY they're not breaking any rules, but boy howdy do they constantly make the person they're stalking uncomfortable and upset. At one point the hunt community was EXTREMELY toxic, from people thinking they're entitled to A and S rank marks to groups of mark spawners and train conductors enacting blacklists against people who didn't follow along with the clique, I don't know how it is now but in ShB it was embarrassing how awful that community was.

Oh I understood Shurrikhan's point. To clarify, never had I said 14's community was perfect by any means. (The stalking aspect is by far the worst.), but I also figured much of the complaints towards 14 would come from a mindset more suited with WoW. So, it's not surprising that the mindsets that closer aligns with WoW would find 14 to have toxic positivity.


Edit: So very strange, I can't seem to reply anymore cause I reached my maximum posts for the day? So I'll just respond tomorrow.

[Zebraoracle]

Oh I understood Shurrikhan's point. To clarify, never had I said 14's community was perfect by any means. (The stalking aspect is by far the worst.), but I also figured much of the complaints towards 14 would come from a mindset more suited with WoW. So, it's not surprising that the mindsets that closer aligns with WoW would find 14 to have toxic positivity.

Fair enough. But it's not really fair to say "mindsets that closer align with WoW" when there are plenty of 14 players who have never touched WoW and are aware of the toxic undercurrent of 14.

[Midareyukki]

Fair enough. But it's not really fair to say "mindsets that closer align with WoW" when there are plenty of 14 players who have never touched WoW and are aware of the toxic undercurrent of 14.

*raises hand* ^^

Never touched WoW, definitely saw some crap from our community in and outside the game.

Let's not kid ourselves. The community can get pretty bleak. It's not just crappy comments. There are some royal creeps out there, some people actively grief in content, and there's quite a lot of toxicity from people who should be more responsible. It's why we even call them Burger King Crowns.

Sure. We might not even reach the heels of WoW, nor do we want to.

But I already mentioned before. We very likely won't, you know why? Because people are this against that sort of thing, the ToS is really restrictive and because the rest of the game is so fluffy and doesn't push you on being a hardcore raider that this would have A LOT of scrutiny.
Again, I'm all up for cautionary tales, but at some point we need to understand the context we're in. People say "This is how WoW started", but did WoW had a community like ours to begin with? A dev team like ours to begin with?

Besides, we can always put restrictions in place to further protect people who might feel vulnerable to that sort of thing. Either keep the results personal to them and ask them if they want to make things public. That way, people can reveal their results to those with the know-how to analyze them and figure out what to do and where to improve.