Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[KeshLives]

This is so toxic and horrible that you think this is the standard measurement - you should and probably will be dismissed hopefully at some point. Good luck with your third party tools and attitude.

Don't feed the very well known troll. He feeds on feeling his supposed great superiority to others. Would hate to watch his bubble burst, and never see him again...oh, wait...

[Deceptus]

Being worse than a Duty Support NPC for one

This is my bar.

If you're worse than the NPC's the devs purposefully made do a bad job of DPS (no aoe) then you are below par.

[Kira619]

Have we seen the toxicity in WoW's forums? Yeah, no thank you. I'm loving the spirit of this game, and devs already stated there won't be mods due to what we are currently seeing in WoW. Thankfully the Devs have foresight on this. The only mod I'd be fine with is a RP Mod so you know who's all role players and what not.

[Shurrikhan]

Have we seen the toxicity in WoW's forums? Yeah, no thank you. I'm loving the spirit of this game, and devs already stated there won't be mods due to what we are currently seeing in WoW. Thankfully the Devs have foresight on this.

All but their Ultimate-equivalent crowd are far less numbers-obsessed than we are already (and have been since early Heavensward), and their forums are no more toxic than ours.

Nor does that toxicity specifically come from the average player, too, having convenient real-time, in-game access to throughput information (which is the only difference between using a parser and just uploading a battle-log).

Note that communities will point at (perceived) imbalances, and regularly discriminate against particular class/job/spec/build choices (just, far less informatively, so that things are led more by memes, hype, and conflated anecdotes), even without parsers. They just tend to know less what they're talking about, and half the discussion turns into finger-pointing in the process of even gathering the basic facts that would otherwise be agreed upon.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Just wanted to say there is already a method of determining how you're doing compared to others in your class. It's called the Enmity Meter right beside your name. You're ranked A - however many people there are with a bar showing if your enmity is increasing or decreasing. If your number is above those in the same class then congrats, you're good.

Enmity gauge is a very vague metric and helps very little. Besides, who in their sane mind would bring a dupe job in EX and higher outside custom runs just to check how well they're doing?

At its very best scenario, enmity only tells whether you're dealing marginally higher or lower personal dps vs other DPS and that's it. It could be you're higher by 1000... or 500... or 80 even and the bar will still tell you you're higher. That's not very helpful at all. What if you're a DRG dealing 5,000dps and you're comparing yourself to another 4,930dps DRG? Is that 'good'? (spoilers: that's an average healer's dps)

On healers, tanks, and any job that contributes more via party buffs, they're even more obscured.

[Shurrikhan]

Enmity gauge is a very vague metric and helps very little. Besides, who in their sane mind would bring a dupe job in EX and higher outside custom runs just to check how well they're doing?

At its very best scenario, enmity only tells whether you're dealing marginally higher or lower personal dps vs other DPS and that's it. It could be you're higher by 1000... or 500... or 80 even and the bar will still tell you you're higher. That's not very helpful at all. What if you're a DRG dealing 7200dps and you're comparing yourself to another 7130dps DRG? Is that 'good'? On healers, tanks, and any job that contributes more via party buffs, they're even more obscured.

And with so short an enmity bar and such huge tank enmity modifiers, the difference between a good player and a mediocre one of equal ilvl... is a couple pixels.

[Kira619]

Hard Disagree, you only need to venture into anything inclusive related (such as their DnD removal of race thread) to see how bad it is on their forum. FFXIV has won the game awards for best community, WoW wasn't even listed in the nominations. In gaming alone, I felt more welcomed in my brief time leveling this character than my entire experience playing WoW. I still remember when I hit level 30, half of the players in the bar celebrated and did fireworks. These were players I've never played before in my life. Just a couple of days ago, I was just chilling in Ul'Dah and a random player just gave me a minion for free. Just out of the blue. That's when I realized "Oh, so this is what people were talking about."

I've played WoW for years, and not once have random players celebrated an achievement I've done or gave me anything for free. The most would be a random wow player using an item to transform me into something, and that's on a RP server, which is the most chill.

So yeah, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on FFXIV being anywhere near as bad as WoW. When this place starts coming up with a plethora of threads making fun of inclusive ideas such as pronouns, race, and more, than we can have a discussion. Though I don't believe that will be happening since the Mods, from what I hear, are usually on their A game.

[Shurrikhan]

FFXIV has won the game awards for best community

Yes, an irony that hasn't gone unnoticed here or among other communities at large.

So yeah, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on FFXIV being anywhere near as bad as WoW. When this place starts coming up with a plethora of threads making fun of inclusive ideas such as pronouns, race, and more, than we can have a discussion. Though I don't believe that will be happening since the Mods, from what I hear, are usually on their A game.

This has got to be grade A satire, right?

Have you really not seen any of the dozen+ Titanragingfistbro/Ativan/Etc., troll threads here, specifically on those subjects? They're a near perfect analog to the shit-stirring trans posts on WoW (where such posts are lead by a troll seemingly in support of such and such cause, but style that "advocacy" in such a purposely belligerent and hyperbolic manner as to just be inviting dog-piles against them and those they "support").

Our mods, meanwhile, are inexistant outside of taking down occasional 200+ page megathreads if they start getting too constructive and/or coordinated in their criticisms?

We're no worse than most, but neither is this place some unique paradise. It's just better at keeping tensions quiet (to fester) and hyping the heck out of what would otherwise be considered normal niceties.

[KeshLives]

Yes, an irony that hasn't gone unnoticed here or among other communities at large.



This has got to be grade A satire, right?

Have you really not seen any of the dozen+ Titanragingfistbro/Ativan/Etc., troll threads here, specifically on those subjects?

Our mods, meanwhile, are inexistant outside of taking down occasional 200+ page megathreads if they start getting too constructive and/or coordinated in their criticisms.

Oh, the forums isn't really where the difference is. By definition, the forums are full of people who are there to complain.

The difference is in actual behavior in-game, and, frankly, the people who claim that WoW isn't toxic? They would fit right in there, and don't notice the toxicity from there...because they're part of it, and a main part of the source of it. Of course it's not toxic to them. They LIKE that kind of atmosphere, and they enjoy it. To them, that's how they want it all the time. They want to point out other people that they can be superior to. That's heaven to them. They just want to make that the norm in FFXIV.

The only saving grace here is that FFXIV won't allow it past a point. I think the devs main stance against damage meters and the like is that they know that if they were built in, they'd have to spend a lot more time (and money) enforcing the rules against mostly the people who clamored the most for the said damage meters and other similar things.

That way lies madness. No, let's not go there.

[Zebraoracle]

Hard Disagree, you only need to venture into anything inclusive related (such as their DnD removal of race thread) to see how bad it is on their forum. FFXIV has won the game awards for best community, WoW wasn't even listed in the nominations. In gaming alone, I felt more welcomed in my brief time leveling this character than my entire experience playing WoW. I still remember when I hit level 30, half of the players in the bar celebrated and did fireworks. These were players I've never played before in my life. Just a couple of days ago, I was just chilling in Ul'Dah and a random player just gave me a minion for free. Just out of the blue. That's when I realized "Oh, so this is what people were talking about."

I've played WoW for years, and not once have random players celebrated an achievement I've done or gave me anything for free. The most would be a random wow player using an item to transform me into something, and that's on a RP server, which is the most chill.

So yeah, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on FFXIV being anywhere near as bad as WoW. When this place starts coming up with a plethora of threads making fun of inclusive ideas such as pronouns, race, and more, than we can have a discussion. Though I don't believe that will be happening since the Mods, from what I hear, are usually on their A game.

Bro... lol. Is your level 34 summoner your highest level job? If so, maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough with 14's community to have a completely educated opinion, otherwise you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise.

Oh, the forums isn't really where the difference is. By definition, the forums are full of people who are there to complain.

The difference is in actual behavior in-game, and, frankly, the people who claim that WoW isn't toxic? They would fit right in there, and don't notice the toxicity from there...because they're part of it, and a main part of the source of it. Of course it's not toxic to them. They LIKE that kind of atmosphere, and they enjoy it. To them, that's how they want it all the time. They want to point out other people that they can be superior to. That's heaven to them. They just want to make that the norm in FFXIV.

The only saving grace here is that FFXIV won't allow it past a point. I think the devs main stance against damage meters and the like is that they know that if they were built in, they'd have to spend a lot more time (and money) enforcing the rules against mostly the people who clamored the most for the said damage meters and other similar things.

That way lies madness. No, let's not go there.

Who in the world is claiming WoW doesn't have a toxic community? Both WoW and 14 have toxic communities, just different types of toxic.

Again, if we limit in game parsers to ONLY content with enrages (extreme, savage, ultimate), the people that are so worried about this will not be affected whatsoever. Do you realize how small the raiding community in 14 actually is? A tiny minority of players, and the ultimate crowd is even smaller than that. An in game parser for this content only is not going to have any negative affect on dungeon runners whatsoever.