Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[FireMage]

Here's my question, this is coming from content that has hard enrages, so Extreme trials and up. If you find you cannot beat a fight due to constantly hitting the hard enrage, why is there no metric giving you an idea of where you need to improve as a group?

Of course, the simple answer is, you hit enrage, just do more damage, but that is not an answer that can lead you to an effective means of overcoming the hurdle. Let's compare with some other things.

If someone dies in a fight, it is generally one of 3 things, either, the healer didn't heal enough, there wasn't enough mitigation out, or a mechanic was messed up. In each case, you can evaluate what went wrong and work to prevent it again. This means, you are putting the onus on someone to fix the mistake. It might not necessarily be a specific person in every case, however, you can narrow down where the mistake happened.

However, in regards to hitting enrage. All you know is you didn't meet the DPS check. You don't know who needs the help in getting better to clear the fight, so you cannot help them get better (though, an argument can be made, why are you doing this content if you don't know how to play your job). Finding the weakest link in a party and making it stronger is how you get better as a player and help to contribute to your team's success.

Yes, 3rd party tools are out there, however, why is it you can evaluate every aspect of what has gone wrong in a fight and fix it, except for DPS deficiencies.

WAH THAT'S BULLYING HOW DARE YOU THINK THIS

Do I do it correctly?

[Mikey_R]

i still really do not get the argument, meter is already in the game its already used, if you wana do savage + unless you are doing a FC group you are going to have to produce logs and what do you need for logs? If there is a DPS problem it will be called out in most groups or if its PF they will break up and re form and blacklist. FC friends that would be handled some other way.

Tbh I don't see the reason to add a in game parser when one already exist. I think its stupid to use it on anything other than savage+. If the game wanted to do anything about the meter, they would handle FF logs but they wont =p its here to stay weather you want it to be or not.

I think I should elaborate. Currently, yes, you can see, however, in theory, you cannot call it out without fear of the ToS. However, if this issue is not sorted out, you aren't clearing the fight. Every other avenue for failure can be seen ingame, except the one that matters. So, why is this?

Obviously, this will lead to some sort of grey area. Imagine they do add in an official parser. You do a fight and see someone is performing far below what they should be, enough to hinder you clearing the fight. Knowing this, is it then harassment to tell them they need to do better? If so, why is that considered harassment? The reason we cannot clear this fight is because of players X and/or Y, because they aren't doing enough damage, so, shouldn't the problem be outlined to be fixed? Could it then not be surmised that the player/s holding the party back are the ones doing the harassing? or at least griefing the party whether intentionally or not?

So again why is it that every metric for a fight's failure can be evaluated and fixed ingame, but you have to rely on the grey area of parses to measure the most important metric for a fight's success?

[Hoodcat]

TBH its already done by the people doing the content, most FC groups use logs, and talk about it on discord. All Statics use logs and review them and talk about them, remove players based on them all on discord ect ect. They use other coms to talk about logs.

PF they just disband and remake denying the guy that sucked access back in which I think is more shitty than just telling them they are not ready. But they are the one that want to be carried and will do the crying yeah, its prolly half these people who are against meters. Basically i guess the argument is just to talk about it in game? i can see both ways, but i think its pointless cuz its already done by the people doing content.

It would be cool to help someone thats only doing 5k dps when you are doing 30 on the same packs with their rot. But at the same time i dunno if its worth the headache with the examples I gave in an earlier post on normal content. Some people just love living in ignorance :|

[Tehmon]

I think I should elaborate. Currently, yes, you can see, however, in theory, you cannot call it out without fear of the ToS. However, if this issue is not sorted out, you aren't clearing the fight. Every other avenue for failure can be seen ingame, except the one that matters. So, why is this?

Obviously, this will lead to some sort of grey area. Imagine they do add in an official parser. You do a fight and see someone is performing far below what they should be, enough to hinder you clearing the fight. Knowing this, is it then harassment to tell them they need to do better? If so, why is that considered harassment? The reason we cannot clear this fight is because of players X and/or Y, because they aren't doing enough damage, so, shouldn't the problem be outlined to be fixed? Could it then not be surmised that the player/s holding the party back are the ones doing the harassing? or at least griefing the party whether intentionally or not?

So again why is it that every metric for a fight's failure can be evaluated and fixed ingame, but you have to rely on the grey area of parses to measure the most important metric for a fight's success?

If we are to have tools in-game to showcase which party members need to be kicked out, we also need tools in-game to help people out with performing better so they don't get kicked out. Parsing doesn't teach you how to play better, it only tells you how well you are playing.

[FireMage]

If we are to have tools in-game to showcase which party members need to be kicked out, we also need tools in-game to help people out with performing better so they don't get kicked out. Parsing doesn't teach you how to play better, it only tells you how well you are playing.

Gee it's like there's resources in 2023 that tell you how to not be garbage

[Tehmon]

Gee it's like there's resources in 2023 that tell you how to not be garbage

Fflogs also exist in 2023 but you require parsing tools in-game nevertheless.

[FireMage]

Fflogs also exist in 2023 but you require parsing tools in-game nevertheless.

And knowing how to not be dead weight is even more accessible than parsing. Shocker

[Mikey_R]

If we are to have tools in-game to showcase which party members need to be kicked out, we also need tools in-game to help people out with performing better so they don't get kicked out. Parsing doesn't teach you how to play better, it only tells you how well you are playing.

If the game has both a parser and some tools ingame to help people, it means players will have feedback that shows they are getting better. Seeing improvements is always going to make the person feel better and can provide the push to try and get better.

Obviously, this would require alot of work on the dev's part and an argument can be made as to whether something like that would be worth the time, especially at the cost of other content.

[Delis]

If we are to have tools in-game to showcase which party members need to be kicked out, we also need tools in-game to help people out with performing better so they don't get kicked out. Parsing doesn't teach you how to play better, it only tells you how well you are playing.

A lot of people seem to think that all parsing does is give you a number and that what we look at, and care aboy.
Most of us who parse don't really pay that much attention to the numbers especially during the fight as it really dosent mean much because it's just a number.

Parsing produces logs which get uploaded and that's what we look at. It breaks down the fight and you can see everything and, can see your gcd uptime, how many of each gcd and ogcd you casted. If you broke your combo, if you tripled weave (easy for tanks starting out to do. They will double weave like normal but see a tb incoming or something and weave in a mitigation. Though once you learn the fight and when you need to mit you can work it in easier.)

So if an official parser also had logs then it would be helpful or there was a screen that you could go to after you get how well you did, that broke down the fight. I woukd be all for it, but I can see of SE did put in an official parser they would only do like how the pvp screen looks which is useless in pve setting.

[Midareyukki]

And knowing how to not be dead weight is even more accessible than parsing. Shocker

It's frightening when he has a point.

Like, how did this thread make me have faith in FireMage?

What are you guys doing??