Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Midareyukki]

People already have ridiculous PF requirements though. Stupid ilvl restrictions in non-parse focused groups, blocking certain jobs (MCH) from playing, demanding you have already cleared while the party leader hasn't actually cleared yet. The things y'all are saying will happen *already happen*.

Something tells me we need to bring back Skip Soar or Disband again.

Or make PLD not block Magic anymore.

At least people had a reason to complain back then. Now you're being discriminated on the effort you signed up for but are failing to meet in raids, that'll be on you. And if you're in a dungeon and people give you a hard time, then see their response. Are they being helpful and kind to you? They're there to help.
Are they being jerks? Destroy them.

Did you miss the part

Considering these arguments keep being touted around every other month in threads like these, I find that the majority of the community misses so many parts about topics in general.

That or they deliberately choose to either
a) ignore that these things do happen elsewhere just to fit their view
b) acknowledge those things happen but somehow believe them to be inferior vs the problems caused by parsing
either way, it hasn't changed anything so far.

This reminds me of Nuclear Energy. Easily a decent enough alternative, with several solid positive factors, but just because of disasters like Fukushima and Chernobyl (one was a natural disaster on an outdated and poorly maintained plant, the other a lacklustre facility conducting a test with inexperienced members whose inexperience and political regime doubled down on the consequences), people grow paranoid about it and are actively against it. Nevermind the actual numbers, protocols implemented since, or the technology that's since evolved to be better equiped to handle it.
Or planes. Where because of how disastrous a plane malfunctioning is leads to people develop an anxious phobia over flying despite the actual rarity of those things happening.

Bad things will happen.
With any tool you use.
The real question is whether the positives outweigh the negatives.
And on the internet where you kinda should have some thick skin anyway? Any negative outcome is entirely on you to handle.

It's so weird that all these people pretend like the TOS dont exist just because it doesnt suite their argument right now. Very strange.

ironically those are the same ones pretending the ToS is gospel against the use of 3rd party tools, despite Square already pointing out it's a gray area for rather comprehensive reasons...

[Joven]

Why? Jealously. They simply hate other players achieving things and doing well while they struggle. Even if those other players are modest and don't brag, they hate that they even exist. So it's much easier to paint them as toxic and elitist and evil, then they're in the right and it's bad to be a raider.

That's just precious.

[Tyjacon]

Yoshi has been pretty clear that its more than just harassment. He doesn't want to see ridiculous requirements in the PF like "you must have this dps number to join" especially for older content where you start to outgear it and expect people at the appropriate ilvl to match the dps of higher ilvls that completely out gear it. This was a common occurrence in other games.

The other side of things is he doesn't want to pointlessly add work onto the GM's. They have enough crap to deal with and the ticket system doesn't need to be overwhelmed by events directly caused by petty players like firemage and other like minded players.

And this is the exact reason why I think that Yoshi P has the right idea. The workload of the GM's trying to police the players, key point here, INTENTIONS vs. their actions are muddled enough currently.
Can you imagine how quickly some people come crying on the forums about how they were unfairly banned because "If Yoshi hadn't intended for us to be able to kick players who don't parse a certain percentage, he wouldn't have put them in the game"?

Players will exploit any loophole. Just look at all the players owning more than 1 house, single player FC's, or windows shortcut to skip unskippable cutscenes to illustrate my point.
Fight club rules apply for a reason.

[raelgun]

Why? Afraid to see what WOW is all about and what it's become because of the number centric crowd. That video is a testamate to a game which sure doesn't look like fun and you wonder why so many people are leaving and have left.

You can keep pushing your number agenda but after all is said and done the DIRECTOR of this game doesn't want this for 14 and I can certainly see why after watching 2/3's of that video.



TY for posting that link.

Yet yoshi p has been rumored to have used act, the devs are pro optimisation, have you ever seen the devs ui they play with in game? They are pro raiding.

[raelgun]

Not a single person gets banned for offering tips in a dungeon. You don't actually believe those people who go post on reddit and say they got banned for "no reason" do you?

The TOS says you can, considering how the toxic casuals play this game, that will be trigger happy with it

[IkaraGreydancer]

A few of us already explained why we stopped offering help. People play the victim and act like we just attacked them and their family, and you have people that defend them and say don't offer our advice because they should be allowed to play the way they want, even if it puts more burden on the other group members because the healer wants to cure 1 spam or Timmy the blm wants to be an icemage.

I not talking about you guys. I myself have had people give me blow back for telling whms that holy exists. This is some are receptive, some aren't. I personally won't stop full sale because some people happen to be arses.

I just think it's dumb that certain folks here think all bad players are bad on purpose. "Toxic casuals". No some folks just don't know they're bad because no ones ever tried to help them be better. This issue is multi layerd

[Zebraoracle]

I not talking about you guys. I myself have had people give me blow back for telling whms that holy exists. This is some are receptive, some aren't. I personally won't stop full sale because some people happen to be arses.

I just think it's dumb that certain folks here think all bad players are bad on purpose. No some folks just don't know they're bad because no ones ever tried to help them be better. This issue is multi layerd

The best thing everyone can do is just ignore Firemage and don't lump everyone who might be pro-parser in the same category as him. Like, surely we can all agree with that sentiment even if we disagree on the parsing issue.

(And Ikara you and I don't even fully disagree on the subject anyways lol)

[Ransu]

People already have ridiculous PF requirements though. Stupid ilvl restrictions in non-parse focused groups, blocking certain jobs (MCH) from playing, demanding you have already cleared while the party leader hasn't actually cleared yet.

Yes, and its a problem caused in part by the existence of ACT and FFLOGS and in part by the devs including ilvl settings in PF.

[FireMage]

The best thing everyone can do is just ignore Firemage and don't lump everyone who might be pro-parser in the same category as him. Like, surely we can all agree with that sentiment even if we disagree on the parsing issue.

(And Ikara you and I don't even fully disagree on the subject anyways lol)

Why should I be ignored, when I'm correct? Seems childish doesn't it?

[Tyjacon]

Yet yoshi p has been rumored to have used act, the devs are pro optimisation, have you ever seen the devs ui they play with in game? They are pro raiding.

I'm sure the devs, who are responsible to ensure that all content can be cleared by every party configuration including raids, are using some program to accomplish this.
You think they use an excel spreadsheet ?
That's literally their job, and they need the tools to accomplish it. Not only raids, as you're implying, but all battle content.