Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Liam_Harper]

I just do not get it, ToS has rules in place that already meant to punish such behavior, yet for some reason it seems people want it to be proactive which punishes people that would use it legitimately because person X will use it to harass. Who are we to say person x would not harass someone anyways without it.

They don't care about fact.

Some players are obsessed with the image of all raiders being toxic, elitist, rude players who kick innocent sprouts from leveling dungeons for missing a GCD and set impossibly high requirements on every single group in PF. It doesn't matter if you point out the ToS, it doesn't matter if PF is full of Practice parties, it doesn't matter if some of us have pugged Savage or even played WoW for years and never seen a kick for low dps in our lives, it doesn't matter if raiders write guides, offer to help and are friendly. They want raiders to fit that image and they'll cling to it relentlessly. They'll take any bad apples as concrete proof even if it's 1% of the overall raid community.

Why? Jealously. They simply hate other players achieving things and doing well while they struggle. Even if those other players are modest and don't brag, they hate that they even exist. So it's much easier to paint them as toxic and elitist and evil, then they're in the right and it's bad to be a raider.

The whole reason the ToS exists is to protect the feelings of people who want to live in a bubble. It exists so bad players can continue to live in an illusion that they contribute to their groups and are morally the correct ones. The reason for this is they're immature. If the devs don't cater to them they'll rage and throw tantrums and likely quit. While the players who want to do their best will grumble on the forums and present feedback, but in the end deal with it and keep going. It's easier to treat us worse.

[IkaraGreydancer]

They don't care about fact.

Some players are obsessed with the image of all raiders being toxic, elitist, rude players who kick innocent sprouts from leveling dungeons for missing a GCD and set impossibly high requirements on every single group in PF. It doesn't matter if you point out the ToS, it doesn't matter if PF is full of Practice parties, it doesn't matter if some of us have pugged Savage or even played WoW for years and never seen a kick for low dps in our lives, it doesn't matter if raiders write guides, offer to help and are friendly. They want raiders to fit that image and they'll cling to it relentlessly. They'll take any bad apples as concrete proof even if it's 1% of the overall raid community.

Why? Jealously. They simply hate other players achieving things and doing well while they struggle. Even if those other players are modest and don't brag, they hate that they even exist. So it's much easier to paint them as toxic and elitist and evil, then they're in the right and it's bad to be a raider.

The whole reason the ToS exists is to protect the feelings of people who want to live in a bubble. It exists so bad players can continue to live in an illusion that they contribute to their groups and are morally the correct ones. The reason for this is they're immature. If the devs don't cater to them they'll rage and throw tantrums and likely quit. While the players who want to do their best will grumble on the forums and present feedback, but in the end deal with it and keep going. It's easier to treat us worse.

Can easily say I don't care about your achievements nor would I ever say all high end players are toxic. Savage and Ultimate are separate from the rest of the game as far as I'm concerned as it requires a different level of skill than the rest. That's why I'm all for these tools in that content. There's no jealousy present at all and that's honestly a hysterical conclusion to come to.

Alot of this reads like borderline elitist bs and I hate even putting that label around. Stuff like that is precisely why some people see you guys that way. So what do we do, get rid of the ToS n just let everything be the wild west? How does that solve anything?

[Zebraoracle]

They don't care about fact.

Some players are obsessed with the image of all raiders being toxic, elitist, rude players who kick innocent sprouts from leveling dungeons for missing a GCD and set impossibly high requirements on every single group in PF. It doesn't matter if you point out the ToS, it doesn't matter if PF is full of Practice parties, it doesn't matter if some of us have pugged Savage or even played WoW for years and never seen a kick for low dps in our lives, it doesn't matter if raiders write guides, offer to help and are friendly. They want raiders to fit that image and they'll cling to it relentlessly. They'll take any bad apples as concrete proof even if it's 1% of the overall raid community.

Why? Jealously. They simply hate other players achieving things and doing well while they struggle. Even if those other players are modest and don't brag, they hate that they even exist. So it's much easier to paint them as toxic and elitist and evil, then they're in the right and it's bad to be a raider.

The whole reason the ToS exists is to protect the feelings of people who want to live in a bubble. It exists so bad players can continue to live in an illusion that they contribute to their groups and are morally the correct ones. The reason for this is they're immature. If the devs don't cater to them they'll rage and throw tantrums and likely quit. While the players who want to do their best will grumble on the forums and present feedback, but in the end deal with it and keep going. It's easier to treat us worse.

So what do we do, get rid of the ToS n just let everything be the wild west? How does that solve anything?

This is where you're having issues. Right here. Why do you and others think that adding parses suddenly negates the TOS??? Why would the TOS change whatsoever if parsing tools were added to the game? I've asked *multiple times* in this thread, and not a single person has managed to answer this question that they claim is absolutely going to happen. Harassing isn't going to suddenly be okay!

Let me repeat

Harassment isn't going to suddenly be okay!
It's especially funny when those people *don't even raid*. Out of curiosity I checked a poster in... I think it was a different topic because they brought up either ACT or FFLogs, idr which, and, lo and behold, they had no savage/ultimate clears whatsoever (on their forum avatar, so obviously could be an alt but still, pretty funny).

And that's completely fine

It's literally allowed by the TOS - if there is a discrepancy of playstyles, if someone is doing lethargic gameplay, if it's your PF and someone isn't performing to your idea of 'up to par', it's LITERALLY ALLOWED to kick them from the party.

[IkaraGreydancer]

This is where you're having issues. Right here. Why do you and others think that adding parses suddenly negates the TOS??? Why would the TOS change whatsoever if parsing tools were added to the game? I've asked *multiple times* in this thread, and not a single person has managed to answer this question that they claim is absolutely going to happen. Harassing isn't going to suddenly be okay!

Let me repeat

Harassment isn't going to suddenly be okay!
It's especially funny when those people *don't even raid*. Out of curiosity I checked a poster in... I think it was a different topic because they brought up either ACT or FFLogs, idr which, and, lo and behold, they had no savage/ultimate clears whatsoever (on their forum avatar, so obviously could be an alt but still, pretty funny).



It's literally allowed by the TOS - if there is a discrepancy of playstyles, if someone is doing lethargic gameplay, if it's your PF and someone isn't performing to your idea of 'up to par', it's LITERALLY ALLOWED to kick them from the party.

I never said it was. I'm not saying things will go crazy. I spoke in the event that we got rid of ToS. The person I spoke to said ToS is there to shield bad player so I asked what would happen if we took that away. That was all. I never once claimed adding parses negates rules. No clue where that came from. Hell I even gave an example that incorporates reporting which is part of the ToS.

And yes kicking for whatever reason you want IS allowed. I said this already. My point is don't be shocked if some call you toxic for certain reasons you choose to kick people. Again that was all I was saying. I'll repeat it again. I'm 100% all for parses in savage and Ultimate. Just don't feel they need to be in any other content.

And to you people making jokes about my last name I wouldn't call you toxic, I'd just say it isn't funny to me n makes no sense as I don't savage raid anymore. I'm not gonna attack yall for being raiders and wanting these meters in game. It's low and immature

[Rolder50]

And to you people making jokes about my last name I wouldn't call you toxic, I'd just say it isn't funny to me n makes no sense as I don't savage raid anymore. I'm not gonna attack yall for being raiders and wanting these meters in game. It's low and immature

Judging by the Lodestone, you haven't played the game AT ALL since 2019. So why should we trust your opinion on the current environment of the game?

[IkaraGreydancer]

Judging by the Lodestone, you haven't played the game AT ALL since 2019. So why should we trust your opinion on the current environment of the game?

I mean if you see what I talk about it's obvious I've played well past 2019. I'm not just pulling mess out of nowhere. I like others am posting on an alt. If you choose to write what I say off as white noise that is your right.

But you know what, I'll humor you. I left this character (the forum one) years ago for another and here it is if you must see https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/21037886/.
I'm very much aware of the games current climate as I've been around nonstop for years now.

[CelestiCer]

This is where you're having issues. Right here. Why do you and others think that adding parses suddenly negates the TOS??? Why would the TOS change whatsoever if parsing tools were added to the game? I've asked *multiple times* in this thread, and not a single person has managed to answer this question that they claim is absolutely going to happen. Harassing isn't going to suddenly be okay!

Pretty much this. Players desire to use a DPS meter? does not suddenly make harassment okay.

I seen harassment and discrimination a lot in FFXIV. You're more likely to be kicked from Savage parties you decided to want to help and pass loot for? cause you're a Lala. Couldn't be me... Heck you're 1000x more likely to be kicked out party for being a 99% percentile MCH !! yes for just being... a MCH... vs being DPS shamed through a DPS meter or FFlogs.

The irony... being harassed by players who probably don't use FFlogs? and then reading the forums about how FFlogs is being used to harass... I love it XD

[Saraide]

Pretty much this. Players desire to use a DPS meter? does not suddenly make harassment okay.

I seen harassment and discrimination a lot in FFXIV. You're more likely to be kicked from Savage parties you decided to want to help and pass loot for? cause you're a Lala. Couldn't be me... Heck you're 1000x more likely to be kicked out party for being a 99% percentile MCH !! yes for just being... a MCH... vs being DPS shamed through a DPS meter or FFlogs.

The irony... being harassed by players who probably don't use FFlogs? and then reading the forums about how FFlogs is being used to harass... I love it XD

That one machinist being kicked from a PF in week 17 or something was peak comedy.

[Joven]

Why? Jealously. They simply hate other players achieving things and doing well while they struggle. Even if those other players are modest and don't brag, they hate that they even exist. So it's much easier to paint them as toxic and elitist and evil, then they're in the right and it's bad to be a raider.

That's just precious.