Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Tehmon]

If you want a game all about optimization and performance and all the baggage that comes with it, wow is available for your enjoyment.

In general it may start with helping top tier raiders with the latest savage raid and etc, but soon enough you'll have people getting yelled in Sastasha normal for not being optimal enough.

We already have one cesspool of an MMO, don't really need another one.

This already happens. There is an optimal way of playing the braindead content without the presence of parsing and damage meters, and people get frustrated by beginners and incompetent players in casual content. See their complaints in the Tales from Duty Finder which has 200+ pages of posts.

I don't think it'd be much different whether we had such meters or not, as the culture of hyper-optimizing casual content already exists.

[Zebraoracle]

Why? Afraid to see what WOW is all about and what it's become because of the number centric crowd. That video is a testamate to a game which sure doesn't look like fun and you wonder why so many people are leaving and have left.

You can keep pushing your number agenda but after all is said and done the DIRECTOR of this game doesn't want this for 14 and I can certainly see why after watching 2/3's of that video.



TY for posting that link.

I know exactly what WoW is like, I don't have to waste my time on an hour long video to see it, and I've probably played it a lot more than some people in this thread. Look at the rest of the post you replied to, I may have added stuff while you were replying. WoW's community is garbage, for a LOT of reasons and not specifically because of damage parsers. The design of the game itself really lends itself to it. Parsing tools are symptom, not a cause.

And lol, number agenda? Excuse me?

[LaylaTsarra]

I know exactly what WoW is like,

No you'd rather waste your time talking about parsers in this thread. You will be enlightened by it give it a shot or are you scared you might not like what you see.

[Midareyukki]

This already happens. There is an optimal way of playing the braindead content without the presence of parsing and damage meters, and people get frustrated by beginners and incompetent players in casual content. See their complaints in the Tales from Duty Finder which has 200+ pages of posts.

I don't think it'd be much different whether we had such meters or not, as the culture of hyper-optimizing casual content already exists.

This makes me think on how many people excuse and promote laissez-faire lazy playstyles and even resist the suggestion of making Hall of the Novice or any potential subsequent versions of it mandatory for new players.

Or people who resist skills being brought in earlier in a job's kit, or the ones who resist more complex and nuanced job design than something simplified and lacking in personal skill expression.

The more those voices have a presence, the lower the chances of damage meters being implemented into the game.

SSS barely works as it is, which is a void with zero nuance, player mechanics, party presence and downtime. Yet to SE this is probably the best it gets.

Of course, were it true, were it "good enough", then PLD and WAR wouldn't need buffs to clear the latest Savage. After all, they can clear SSS, can't they? :^)
This should have been a wake-up call for SE, but as many other things in the game, it went over their heads entirely.

[Zebraoracle]

I don't think it'd be much different whether we had such meters or not, as the culture of hyper-optimizing casual content already exists.

This. This right here. 14's community isn't some shining paragon of virtue, this stuff that people worry about is already in the game. Thankfully we have a very strict TOS/GM team that actually punishes harassment and isn't going to magically go away if a parsing tool was added. In fact, I'm willing to bet most things would stay relatively the same, people barely talk in duties as it is (either because they're rushing to get it done, they're scared of being randomly reported, or some other reason who knows) and this lack of talking is fairly ingrained in the community at this point.

No you'd rather waste your time talking about parsers in this thread. You will be enlightened by it give it a shot or are you scared you might not like what you see.

I don't have to watch a video about WoW's toxicity to know... WoW has toxicity...

[VerdeLuck]

This already happens. There is an optimal way of playing the braindead content without the presence of parsing and damage meters, and people get frustrated by beginners and incompetent players in casual content. See their complaints in the Tales from Duty Finder which has 200+ pages of posts.

I don't think it'd be much different whether we had such meters or not, as the culture of hyper-optimizing casual content already exists.

You don't think it would be different if the major thing holding them back from raging at new players in game was removed?
We can move the goalposts all we want about "But harassment would still be against TOS" like somehow the TOS is some magical thing that prevents players from doing anything listed, but the fact is the major thing preventing that now is the hardline stance on bringing up numbers for another player in game is a ban. Without that hardline stance it would shift to become a debate about how polite you were when you told that sprout they were shit, and does it really constitute harassment. Fact is that having a hard stance on no plugins, no mods, and no parsers sidesteps a whole lot of internet debatelord arguments about whether harassment was intended or not and just stops it in its tracks. It works incredibly well, and if it's not broken there's no reason to fix it.

[Midareyukki]

No you'd rather waste your time talking about parsers in this tread. You will be enlightened by it give it a shot or are you scared you might not like what you see.

He literally said he raided there, what do you mean "not like what you see"?

Dude, he's allowed to have his opinion based on his own hands-on empyrical experience.

Unlike some people who take their opinions from youtube videos and count those as gospel.

A video alone will present one point of view too, so it's no different than whatever knowledge other people have. No need to high horse a video just because it fits your views.

TLDR? You call his aversion "inconvenient", your view can be called "bias" in turn. Make your case.

[FireMage]

Yoshi has been pretty clear that its more than just harassment. He doesn't want to see ridiculous requirements in the PF like "you must have this dps number to join" especially for older content where you start to outgear it and expect people at the appropriate ilvl to match the dps of higher ilvls that completely out gear it. This was a common occurrence in other games.

The other side of things is he doesn't want to pointlessly add work onto the GM's. They have enough crap to deal with and the ticket system doesn't need to be overwhelmed by events directly caused by petty players like firemage and other like minded players.

Ransu and needing to mention me, name a more iconic duo

[Midareyukki]

Ransu and needing to mention me, name a more iconic duo

You and Ivtrix.

[Zebraoracle]

Yoshi has been pretty clear that its more than just harassment. He doesn't want to see ridiculous requirements in the PF like "you must have this dps number to join" especially for older content where you start to outgear it and expect people at the appropriate ilvl to match the dps of higher ilvls that completely out gear it. This was a common occurrence in other games.

The other side of things is he doesn't want to pointlessly add work onto the GM's. They have enough crap to deal with and the ticket system doesn't need to be overwhelmed by events directly caused by petty players like firemage and other like minded players.

People already have ridiculous PF requirements though. Stupid ilvl restrictions in non-parse focused groups, blocking certain jobs (MCH) from playing, demanding you have already cleared while the party leader hasn't actually cleared yet. The things y'all are saying will happen *already happen*. And bringing up other games isn't a great argument when other games don't have the strictness and rigidity of 14's TOS/GM team. Like, this is one of the most punish happy (for better or for worse) GM teams I've ever seen. There's a reason why the memes about people being silent in duties and people refusing to offer help exists.

You don't think it would be different if the major thing holding them back from raging at new players in game was removed?
We can move the goalposts all we want about "But harassment would still be against TOS" like somehow the TOS is some magical thing that prevents players from doing anything listed, but the fact is the major thing preventing that now is the hardline stance on bringing up numbers for another player in game is a ban. Without that hardline stance it would shift to become a debate about how polite you were when you told that sprout they were shit, and does it really constitute harassment. Fact is that having a hard stance on no plugins, no mods, and no parsers sidesteps a whole lot of internet debatelord arguments about whether harassment was intended or not and just stops it in its tracks. It works incredibly well, and if it's not broken there's no reason to fix it.

Did you miss the part of the TOS where you cannot tell others how to play? This is why people are so scared of offering tips in dungeons, you can literally be reported for offering advice (whether it actually gets punished or not is another story). Official parsers being added isn't going to suddenly make it so some random person can go off on you in a duty. If you call someone shit, it's very clearly breaking the TOS.

Like yeah, people can break the TOS, they already do, and they are wildly not the norm. But those people get punished and, hopefully, removed from the game.

Side note, if anything, it'd be hilarious to have a parsing tool added specifically to weed the toxic people out of the game.

You and Ivtrix.

*gigglesnort*