Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[IkaraGreydancer]

They don't care about fact.

Some players are obsessed with the image of all raiders being toxic, elitist, rude players who kick innocent sprouts from leveling dungeons for missing a GCD and set impossibly high requirements on every single group in PF. It doesn't matter if you point out the ToS, it doesn't matter if PF is full of Practice parties, it doesn't matter if some of us have pugged Savage or even played WoW for years and never seen a kick for low dps in our lives, it doesn't matter if raiders write guides, offer to help and are friendly. They want raiders to fit that image and they'll cling to it relentlessly. They'll take any bad apples as concrete proof even if it's 1% of the overall raid community.

Why? Jealously. They simply hate other players achieving things and doing well while they struggle. Even if those other players are modest and don't brag, they hate that they even exist. So it's much easier to paint them as toxic and elitist and evil, then they're in the right and it's bad to be a raider.

The whole reason the ToS exists is to protect the feelings of people who want to live in a bubble. It exists so bad players can continue to live in an illusion that they contribute to their groups and are morally the correct ones. The reason for this is they're immature. If the devs don't cater to them they'll rage and throw tantrums and likely quit. While the players who want to do their best will grumble on the forums and present feedback, but in the end deal with it and keep going. It's easier to treat us worse.

Can easily say I don't care about your achievements nor would I ever say all high end players are toxic. Savage and Ultimate are separate from the rest of the game as far as I'm concerned as it requires a different level of skill than the rest. That's why I'm all for these tools in that content. There's no jealousy present at all and that's honestly a hysterical conclusion to come to.

Alot of this reads like borderline elitist bs and I hate even putting that label around. Stuff like that is precisely why some people see you guys that way. So what do we do, get rid of the ToS n just let everything be the wild west? How does that solve anything?

[CelestiCer]

Currently? There's no Legal way to accurately gauge self-improvement in-game

In-game? We have " Stone-Sea-Sky " as an inaccurate way to gauge self-improvement which offers so little. For casual content? Players are not encouraged to be the best players they can be because it's not required. Square drags players possible dead bodies if they have to through the finish lines. Incentives for a DPS meter is near non-existent for this difficulty.

At " Savage" difficulty? Players are met with DPS checks where players do desire self-improvement and accurate results if they are improving, evident by just looking at FFlogs and you will bump into parties who use it constantly. Rather they use to record clears? or beating former self-performances? the most important thing would be that players " want to improve " and that a DPS meter is a tool to be used for just that. In-game? nothing offers accountability on rather or not you're pulling your weight or the reviewing the mistakes you made. You don't need a meter to clear content, but the incentive is improvement.

Does this mean DPS meters should be in the game?
I am not against a meter, as-long as it's limited to Savage and Ultimate raiding. They could even just do it for only being able to view your own DPS performance. But the big man Yoshi-P is against it so it's going to be a No, End of Story.

What about being bullied?
When I started on Aether? I got DPS shamed in Dungeons and Parse shamed in Alliance Raids. As a new player... Now you could say that's cause of the DPS meter... or? it's cause I was at the bottom of the enmity list. Either way? a DPS meter is a tool, and if players use it? they are breaking the TOS? but also they shouldn't DPS shame anyone ever.

A DPS meter at the end of the day? is just a tool. You do not need it to play FFXIV nor to clear content. However? players apparently use them obviously to self-improve and record their clears and load it up on a 3rd party website because there is a desire for it. Even the most law abiding JP region? has JP players also just using FFlogs. It is still illegal. Yoshi P has made his stance clear on it and I don't think anyone should think that should change any time soon.

[FireMage]

We literally have folks in these treads saying they would or have kicked for supposed "dead weight" reasons.

And that's completely fine

[Zebraoracle]

They don't care about fact.

Some players are obsessed with the image of all raiders being toxic, elitist, rude players who kick innocent sprouts from leveling dungeons for missing a GCD and set impossibly high requirements on every single group in PF. It doesn't matter if you point out the ToS, it doesn't matter if PF is full of Practice parties, it doesn't matter if some of us have pugged Savage or even played WoW for years and never seen a kick for low dps in our lives, it doesn't matter if raiders write guides, offer to help and are friendly. They want raiders to fit that image and they'll cling to it relentlessly. They'll take any bad apples as concrete proof even if it's 1% of the overall raid community.

Why? Jealously. They simply hate other players achieving things and doing well while they struggle. Even if those other players are modest and don't brag, they hate that they even exist. So it's much easier to paint them as toxic and elitist and evil, then they're in the right and it's bad to be a raider.

The whole reason the ToS exists is to protect the feelings of people who want to live in a bubble. It exists so bad players can continue to live in an illusion that they contribute to their groups and are morally the correct ones. The reason for this is they're immature. If the devs don't cater to them they'll rage and throw tantrums and likely quit. While the players who want to do their best will grumble on the forums and present feedback, but in the end deal with it and keep going. It's easier to treat us worse.

So what do we do, get rid of the ToS n just let everything be the wild west? How does that solve anything?

This is where you're having issues. Right here. Why do you and others think that adding parses suddenly negates the TOS??? Why would the TOS change whatsoever if parsing tools were added to the game? I've asked *multiple times* in this thread, and not a single person has managed to answer this question that they claim is absolutely going to happen. Harassing isn't going to suddenly be okay!

Let me repeat

Harassment isn't going to suddenly be okay!
It's especially funny when those people *don't even raid*. Out of curiosity I checked a poster in... I think it was a different topic because they brought up either ACT or FFLogs, idr which, and, lo and behold, they had no savage/ultimate clears whatsoever (on their forum avatar, so obviously could be an alt but still, pretty funny).

And that's completely fine

It's literally allowed by the TOS - if there is a discrepancy of playstyles, if someone is doing lethargic gameplay, if it's your PF and someone isn't performing to your idea of 'up to par', it's LITERALLY ALLOWED to kick them from the party.

[Bobby66]

Heard it here first folks if you add parsing the game will devolve into pure chaos. Suddenly no rules will apply, and groups will start to kick melee Jobs from lowbie content because they lack aoe and their damage is low.

[BristolRuss]

So I guess you missed the instances where folks are bullied due to not having as high a performance as others. There's a reason SE hasn't put it in the game officially. Let's not pretend this stuff doesn't happen. We literally have folks in these treads saying they would or have kicked for supposed "dead weight" reasons.

Well your surname is on point I'll give you that.

[FireMage]

Well your surname is on point I'll give you that.

And that folks, is the best joke in this topic

[Bobby66]

Well your surname is on point I'll give you that.

Careful some will say that is "ToXiC"

[FireMage]

Careful some will say that is "ToXiC"

I mean being a graylet is being toxic

[IkaraGreydancer]

This is where you're having issues. Right here. Why do you and others think that adding parses suddenly negates the TOS??? Why would the TOS change whatsoever if parsing tools were added to the game? I've asked *multiple times* in this thread, and not a single person has managed to answer this question that they claim is absolutely going to happen. Harassing isn't going to suddenly be okay!

Let me repeat

Harassment isn't going to suddenly be okay!
It's especially funny when those people *don't even raid*. Out of curiosity I checked a poster in... I think it was a different topic because they brought up either ACT or FFLogs, idr which, and, lo and behold, they had no savage/ultimate clears whatsoever (on their forum avatar, so obviously could be an alt but still, pretty funny).



It's literally allowed by the TOS - if there is a discrepancy of playstyles, if someone is doing lethargic gameplay, if it's your PF and someone isn't performing to your idea of 'up to par', it's LITERALLY ALLOWED to kick them from the party.

I never said it was. I'm not saying things will go crazy. I spoke in the event that we got rid of ToS. The person I spoke to said ToS is there to shield bad player so I asked what would happen if we took that away. That was all. I never once claimed adding parses negates rules. No clue where that came from. Hell I even gave an example that incorporates reporting which is part of the ToS.

And yes kicking for whatever reason you want IS allowed. I said this already. My point is don't be shocked if some call you toxic for certain reasons you choose to kick people. Again that was all I was saying. I'll repeat it again. I'm 100% all for parses in savage and Ultimate. Just don't feel they need to be in any other content.

And to you people making jokes about my last name I wouldn't call you toxic, I'd just say it isn't funny to me n makes no sense as I don't savage raid anymore. I'm not gonna attack yall for being raiders and wanting these meters in game. It's low and immature