Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Aword3213]

You seem very adamant with squelching this discussion at all cost.

***cough** reading comprehension*** cough***

[Shurrikhan]

What’s there to be discussed when that MMO overlord wannabe tried to dictate what MMO should be and should not be?

What’s with that strange way of interpretation of steam chart and the conclusion after that?

What’s wrong with the divide single player enthusiasts and second life night club? No reason provided, no explanation. No details. No facts. Only subjective opinions as far as I can see. And you just agree with him?

You’re not trying to understand what R041 is trying to say, are you? Someone said something to negative to XIV and you just consume it without even considering the possible pros and cons of his suggestions in addition to the vision he’s trying to bring about?

Posts like these leave no room for discussion. His supposed “feedback “ is based on the premises he set for himself and him only. It’s not meant to have a discussion and understanding . It’s a monologue. You either agree or disagree. Unless he completely changes the way he presents his ideas. Nothing constructive would come after that.

He's not wrong to think that what is typically considered "a good MMO" tends to make good use of its being massively multiplayer -- in the same sense that a giant convention generally wouldn't be great as a giant convention if one's only view of it between lunch breaks was tiny booths of 4 to 8 people at a time or a good mystery game tends to skillfully leverage the player's engagement with the game's mysteries. That may be an argument ad populum, but it is at least the standing argument for just about any genre -- that it should be able to leverage its characteristics. If you have a better model, feel free to share it.

But that's also about the end of his presuppositions. The rest has been, here and there, framed implicitly or explicitly as his own subjective preferences -- his 'wishlist,' what he 'would rather' have. Many of those he's explained the warrants behind; they've not be hidden from discussion or discuss-ability.


So what so assures you that Rolder50 couldn't possibly agree with R041's points except through a complete lack of consideration, let alone that R041's "'feedback'" isn't meant to add to discussion nor discussion? You don't

You, more than most here, seem to be the one devolving the topics into a singular switch of either (ambiguously broad) "agree"-ment or "disagree"-ment. (Alongside purposely removing contexts such as "the changes to" just to frame others as saying shit like "I liked _____ 1.x".)

What do you specifically find fallacious or ill-warranted about R041's models for how XIV might be usefully compared? What heuristics would you advise over his? If you don't like his model of what an MMO should ideally be capable of, what is your preference?

Or, attending to the finer points, what seems so detrimental about preferences such as doing more with the open world, no longer restricting dungeons to trivial difficulties, improving the tick rate or command queue handling, increased reason to run content that is currently otherwise run only once per day through dailies, or instanced housing, for instance?

Others have been engaging with both the specific points given. For someone essentially calling others cultish and incapable of analytical thought, you have added surprisingly little outside of ad hominins and the broad stroke arguments you, yourself, demonize.

[Shurrikhan]

My own $0.02, again, in brief:

1. I think XIV needs to start investing in ways to increase the returns on crafted content. There are many ways to handle this:

• Increase the rewards of first clear runs (e.g., even more Poetics, and a fair bit of experience, for the player completing the content for the first time.
• Decrease the pain of bothering with any more low-level content than one must, such as by adjusting the way sync works to allow players the option of retaining a full(er) kit and/or, especially, accelerating the acquisition of skills (allowing us to reach a relatively complete/satisfying kit far earlier).
• Allowing also for content to be synced procedurally, rather than as a hand-crafted venture, up to level-cap, so that they may play a part in, say, rotations of content useful for/towards one's current Relic grind.
• Allowing for quick reiteration of content, such as by adding overlying mechanics of a nature that works decently with all instances to which it'd be applied and works well with at least their majority. Think adding a "Trial of <Element>" for instance for an added kiss-curse challenge that would add a new layer of challenge and apparent player power, both, to a given existing instance.

2. I think XIV needs to lean away from reliance on certain crutches, namely...

• The pretense that hitting [5] after [4] after [3] after [2] after [1], etc., as per our "combos", is somehow sufficiently engaging difficult and compelling gameplay to be worthy of its consuming up to 10 buttons for what are at most just 3 points of decision and a bit of finger-DDR. Either the game's "combos" should likely be turned into actual separable but synergetic abilities that'd offer multiple potential paths for action that'd require, or there is little point in denying console players the ability to consolidate those combos if they so wish.
  
  
• The idea that the game really offers "all jobs on one character" (as if without several lines of restricting fine print, in practice). If all jobs are to be available on one character, one shouldn't need multiple character to progress simultaneously across multiple armor classes. Let acquisition of a weekly-tome chestpiece for one job unlock it to be purchased via uncapped tomestones on all others, etc. Let Savage allow for the purchasing of any other Savage piece of the given slot directly. Etc., etc.

  And ideally, leverage the hell out of that aspect. Facilitate and encourage multi-/omni-leveling and, given that, let jobs be more distinct from one another. That grind time may be reduced should never be seen as a risk; it's that much more time to spend on the full experience of the game, with a full kit, with the largest body of players one might group with. If the post-restrictions main body of the game ("endgame," at least if we could use the word without the baggage of "casual"/"elitist" dichotomies) can't engage people, such that players would have "less to do" if leveling time were reduced, that's already the crippling issue.

• Honestly, just certain self-enforced constraints such as what, precisely, each dungeon/trial/raid/alliance raid needs to be. I'd rather see them challenge those models to see what could be done interestingly outside them, almost reversing those constraints in part, here and there, as a creative exercise.

[VelKallor]

Decrease the pain of bothering with any more low-level content than one must, such as by adjusting the way sync works to allow players the option of retaining a full(er) kit and/or, especially, accelerating the acquisition of skills (allowing us to reach a relatively complete/satisfying kit far earlier).

So you want a player at level 15 with a level 15 kit against a 90 player with a 90 kit...in the same instance.

No.

[Graeham]

My own $002

Game maker is slow hand crafted the remake of the old content to play at the lv 90. But average nightcore playerbase not like Remake Sephiroth Unreal because is too hard. Curse trial will not be finish because basic trial is the cursed and can not clear add phase. How do you procedural remake using AI robot maid to doing same thing human do over 3 month. You are genius inventor who must take the job offer to work in Squaresoft JP.

Rotation cannot be made different because player not like surprise. Game maker create proc combo job in heavenward machineman then player get angry. Is too hard needing the buff. Game maker make critical hitting and player do not like this surprise so now all punching is crit. Game maker make buff to make you use the team but player do not like the two minute meta. So you have make the game where nothing is surprise and nobody is team. So no replay fun. Hardcore player do not care about this just play game and get good. Is only done to making angry nightcore playerbase stop cry. Game is too hard buff Sam pls.

You do not want the universal gear. If you make challenge the new job and get the new raid experience you will be buy the crafted and train. If get the gear you did not earn will not unlock the new hard content. You will still be the player pretending to be good at job does not play so can afk in Limsa. Is the faker.

[Raven2014]

There is one reason why FF14 would never have full ability on synch: it has way too many oGCD.

If the tool kit are mostly GCD then yeah no problem, having the full set just means having more option, and you can crunch the number. But oGCD = free attack, and there is no way you can crunch the number on a max level to make it content appropriate in a low level duty. Like on some classes you're looking at anywhere from 3-6 additional "free" attack, especially in the openers. The max level just gonna nuke the place down unless all of their oGCD is neft to a point where they're no longer worth it to even press the button.

And healers with their full oGCD kit in lower content? I don't think I even need to elaborate

[Amenara]

Since we are talking about kits at lower levels, I just wish that jobs had a kit at all at lower levels. Looking back at ARR and HW kits and looking at current kits and its a pretty stark difference and I think is the biggest gameplay problem right now. I get that the level cap was 50 and 60 and not 90 but I think the approach towards it has been the wrong one, removing abilities like feint and phlebotomize to "streamline" the experience for new players but it just makes it more boring and makes it feel like you have no real rewards to look forward to at lower levels and leads to an incredibly stagnant playstyle that only gets better after level 60.

[Stanelis]

So you want a player at level 15 with a level 15 kit against a 90 player with a 90 kit...in the same instance.

No.

It wouldn't make any difference on a macro standpoint because all matter is the amount of DPS dealt to the boss anyway. It makes no differences if the player has 5 different DPS skills or only 1 DPS skill, in the end it is all DPS. If damage is scaled properly the player with a level 15 kit can indeed have the same DPS as the 90 player with his kit.

[DPZ2]

If damage is scaled properly the player with a level 15 kit can indeed have the same DPS as the 90 player with his kit.

Are you willing to forgo an expansion in order to make this a reality? Because while it is probably do-able from a micro standpoint, it will take a large amount of time to accomplish.

Also, can you name two MMORPGs that do this well? I know that World of Warcraft appears to be able to adjust levels for Mobs, but I don't remember them adjusting player DPS on this level.

[Absurdity]

Are you willing to forgo an expansion in order to make this a reality? Because while it is probably do-able from a micro standpoint, it will take a large amount of time to accomplish.

Also, can you name two MMORPGs that do this well? I know that World of Warcraft appears to be able to adjust levels for Mobs, but I don't remember them adjusting player DPS on this level.

Since WoW allows a freshly created and a max level character to play an expansion together I would assume that it is able to do that.