Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Shurrikhan]

You're oversimplifying the actual issue with players with different levels of their toolkits. If one person has more abilities than the rest then the synced content is trivialized a bit.

Synced old content done for the challenge/experience of it is a quite a different beast from random matchmade roulettes, and let's not forget that you specifically allowed in your example for even perfect number-crunching (i.e., near-equal combined capacities across damage, mitigation, and healing).

Moreover, we're talking about options. Minimum ilvl is not on by default either. This would simply move "Sync abilities down" from a default behavior to one such option.

Want full challenge (though, you'd have that anyways with number-crunching)? Minimum Item Level + Abilities Synced Down. Will it be the same difficulty as the content was originally anyways? No, but you can better pretend.

I still like my idea better, just need to rework all pre-50 jobs to have a lite version of their 90 rotation. So all players can use these abilities.

There is nothing mutually exclusive between improving the leveling experience and the simple fact that it doesn't particularly matter whether synced content allow one to retain their full slew of abilities at duly reduced effect.

We should have kits feel satisfactory and seemingly cohesive and complete by level 50... because it's better for the leveling experience (that is, it's better to have fewer additional gameplay additions to look forward to acquiring further along than to have so little to work with for most of that time). That the default synced behavior should probably be number-crunched ability sync instead of a hard cap to ability access is a separate matter.

[Deveryn]

You don't tune the contents for that kind of sync; you tune the kits. If someone opts into holding onto a lv90 kit in a lv60 dungeon, you simply either

• divide the relative potency per minute of the latter over the prior, and multiply the prior by that ratio (the lv90 works harder for the same output, give or take how neatly combat coincides with their additional CDs),
  or
• proportion the power of the unshared span of abilities to their portion of rppm added, then do the above (this again arrives at the same net effect, but with the shared kit less nerfed and the unshared portion more so, such that the lv90 loses less damage from not interacting with the whole kit.

In both cases one can set the potency/effect crunch to be sharp enough for level-capped players to get essentially no extra reward for their extra efforts (they opted into the added challenge for less boredom, after all) or less sharp, as to reward them very mildly.

Either way, it's a long and messy process that they're not about to get involved in. Level sync clearly has its limitations and this really doesn't make enough of an improvement to the game to justify the time that would need to be spent tuning one side or the other.

[Shurrikhan]

Either way, it's a long and messy process that they're not about to get involved in. Level sync clearly has its limitations...

Level sync has exactly the limitations the devs have specifically given it. It makes no sense to say that X shouldn't be improved because it's currently barebone (and therefore could only ever be barebone).

And XIV's technical innovations, if we could ever call them that with a straight face, are hardly something on which to base broader theoretical feasibility.

this really doesn't make enough of an improvement to the game to justify the time that would need to be spent tuning one side or the other.

Except the formulae are the same as one could use for upscaling content, also, to where they still reward endgame gear, thus allowing us to expand from one raid tier, one Alliance raid, one trial, and one dungeon being relevant outside of roulettes at any given time to whole expansions' worth of content then being of use as the devs see fit to rotate them in or such for variety, greatly increasing the ultimate value of resources spent on any given piece of content since it's no longer one-and-done for MSQ or a brief period of gear-milling.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Synced old content done for the challenge/experience of it is a quite a different beast from random matchmade roulettes, and let's not forget that you specifically allowed in your example for even perfect number-crunching (i.e., near-equal combined capacities across damage, mitigation, and healing).

Moreover, we're talking about options. Minimum ilvl is not on by default either. This would simply move "Sync abilities down" from a default behavior to one such option.

Want full challenge (though, you'd have that anyways with number-crunching)? Minimum Item Level + Abilities Synced Down. Will it be the same difficulty as the content was originally anyways? No, but you can better pretend.


There is nothing mutually exclusive between improving the leveling experience and the simple fact that it doesn't particularly matter whether synced content allow one to retain their full slew of abilities at duly reduced effect.

We should have kits feel satisfactory and seemingly cohesive and complete by level 50... because it's better for the leveling experience (that is, it's better to have fewer additional gameplay additions to look forward to acquiring further along than to have so little to work with for most of that time). That the default synced behavior should probably be number-crunched ability sync instead of a hard cap to ability access is a separate matter.

You are still misunderstanding me. I mean for lower leveled players to still have access to what the feel of a job is at lv.90. Which means revamping lv.1-20 to have abilities that allow them to understand how a job works at lv.90. Which also yes this means barring some access to the whole kit for higher leveled players (such as some ogcds and whatnot) but not gut it so much to where the playstyle completely is gimped and or feels boring to play as it is now when it comes to syncing pre-80-90. The idea is to still allow some feel of power progression in what you can do with new skills while leveling but just be an upgrade or building up of what the core rotation and playstyle is for that job.

This is asking a lot of course as it means having to retool many of the jobs for early levels but from the example given to how 6.0 reworked Monk to give access to the chakra gauge much, much earlier! stuff like that is a step in right direction I feel.

[Shurrikhan]

You are still misunderstanding me. I mean for lower leveled players to still have access to what the feel of a job is at lv.90.

And, again, I agree that should be done.

But that does not preclude the benefits of building better level-scaling tech so that we can both number-crunch down those who want to play with their whole kits when doing duties of lower level than them or allowing content to be scaled up to level-cap.

The two are not mutually exclusive. We can do both.

[Atelier-Bagur]

And, again, I agree that should be done.

But that does not preclude the benefits of building better level-scaling tech so that we can both number-crunch down those who want to play with their whole kits when doing duties of lower level than them or allowing content to be scaled up to level-cap.

The two are not mutually exclusive. We can do both.

Thats fair

[Deveryn]

Level sync has exactly the limitations the devs have specifically given it. It makes no sense to say that X shouldn't be improved because it's currently barebone (and therefore could only ever be barebone).

And XIV's technical innovations, if we could ever call them that with a straight face, are hardly something on which to base broader theoretical feasibility.


Except the formulae are the same as one could use for upscaling content, also, to where they still reward endgame gear, thus allowing us to expand from one raid tier, one Alliance raid, one trial, and one dungeon being relevant outside of roulettes at any given time to whole expansions' worth of content then being of use as the devs see fit to rotate them in or such for variety, greatly increasing the ultimate value of resources spent on any given piece of content since it's no longer one-and-done for MSQ or a brief period of gear-milling.

I'm not talking technical limitations. I'm strictly speaking of time required to do all that and the value of doing so. They're still trying to figure out balance and get these reworks done so future additions can go more smoothly. Such a thing like this seems like a very low priority if they can ever get around to it.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm strictly speaking of time required to do all that and the value of doing so.

And again, the potential value is huge:

Except the formulae are the same as one could use for upscaling content, also, to where they still reward endgame gear, thus allowing us to expand from one raid tier, one Alliance raid, one trial, and one dungeon being relevant outside of roulettes at any given time to whole expansions' worth of content then being of use as the devs see fit to rotate them in or such for variety, greatly increasing the ultimate value of resources spent on any given piece of content since it's no longer one-and-done for MSQ or a brief period of gear-milling.

It's the difference between the game having relevantly available to it, without massively slashing down our available kits or being mostly removed from the game's systems of incentives, either...

• just one tier of content
  
  or
  
  
• many expansions of content.

[Aword3213]

R041 a few posts above this outlined it all pretty well and I agree with their points. Why don't you try responding to that instead of cherry picking responses?

What’s there to be discussed when that MMO overlord wannabe tried to dictate what MMO should be and should not be?

What’s with that strange way of interpretation of steam chart and the conclusion after that?

What’s wrong with the divide single player enthusiasts and second life night club? No reason provided, no explanation. No details. No facts. Only subjective opinions as far as I can see. And you just agree with him?

You’re not trying to understand what R041 is trying to say, are you? Someone said something to negative to XIV and you just consume it without even considering the possible pros and cons of his suggestions in addition to the vision he’s trying to bring about?

Posts like these leave no room for discussion. His supposed “feedback “ is based on the premises he set for himself and him only. It’s not meant to have a discussion and understanding . It’s a monologue. You either agree or disagree. Unless he completely changes the way he presents his ideas. Nothing constructive would come after that.

[R041]

...

I posted in an active discussion and have reacted to the criticisms directed at me and my suggestions - It's for whoever wants to read it and respond with their own thoughts. I'm not perfect, but at least I'm trying to be engaging here and not directly shutting anyone down. You seem very adamant with squelching this discussion at all cost.

Even Atelier-Bagur is bringing up some great points, and I agree with them on several things. And Deveryn has inspired me to start Achievement hunting more to be more active in XIV.

But when a suggestion is provided, no matter how heated or wrong you think they may be, it's still worth trying to talk out WHY they're making that suggestion, or WHY they feel the way they do. I realize that a lot of my problems stem from combat engagement and Duty flexibility.

So I think there's definitely some value to be had here, and maybe we all need to start being a little more humble.