Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Stanelis]

So you want a player at level 15 with a level 15 kit against a 90 player with a 90 kit...in the same instance.

No.

It wouldn't make any difference on a macro standpoint because all matter is the amount of DPS dealt to the boss anyway. It makes no differences if the player has 5 different DPS skills or only 1 DPS skill, in the end it is all DPS. If damage is scaled properly the player with a level 15 kit can indeed have the same DPS as the 90 player with his kit.

[DPZ2]

If damage is scaled properly the player with a level 15 kit can indeed have the same DPS as the 90 player with his kit.

Are you willing to forgo an expansion in order to make this a reality? Because while it is probably do-able from a micro standpoint, it will take a large amount of time to accomplish.

Also, can you name two MMORPGs that do this well? I know that World of Warcraft appears to be able to adjust levels for Mobs, but I don't remember them adjusting player DPS on this level.

[Absurdity]

Are you willing to forgo an expansion in order to make this a reality? Because while it is probably do-able from a micro standpoint, it will take a large amount of time to accomplish.

Also, can you name two MMORPGs that do this well? I know that World of Warcraft appears to be able to adjust levels for Mobs, but I don't remember them adjusting player DPS on this level.

Since WoW allows a freshly created and a max level character to play an expansion together I would assume that it is able to do that.

[Amenara]

Also, can you name two MMORPGs that do this well? I know that World of Warcraft appears to be able to adjust levels for Mobs, but I don't remember them adjusting player DPS on this level.

Honestly WoW does it pretty ok, but there are definitely issues with scaling in the sense that lower level characters do considerably more dps than higher level characters in a dungeon as well as scaling of different expansion's dungeons can by wonky at times. I think if they dedicated a team to do a balancing pass on leveling dungeons it would be in a really good spot.

That being said, FFXIV and WoW have different mentalities when it comes to dungeons. Instead of syncing characters in dungeons they sync mobs to your characters level. I think that is a massive difference in mentality towards the issue and honestly makes it very difficult to compare the two.

[Raven2014]

If damage is scaled properly the player with a level 15 kit can indeed have the same DPS as the 90 player with his kit.

Arbitrary say "if it done properly" is easy, anyone can say that. Give me an example, be specific, how can it be achieved in a way that makes sense.

Here is a counter example:

Lvl25 lancer: True->Vopal->Full thrust. A 3 button rotation.

Lvl90 DRG: The base GCD rotation have a total of 7 abilities, 8 if count the Raiden proc.


So, if we just look at GCD alone, those 8 abilites on the DRG have to be neft to a point where it will have the same potency as the full thrust rotation. Then, it get worse when you bring in the oGCD, which is like what, 7 or 8 more abilities?


Now I haven't done the exact math. But to make 16 abilities yielding the same output as 3 abilities ... each of the former have to weaker not by two, not by three, and probably will more than by 4 times. Does it make sense for Raiden thrust to be like ... 1/5 the power of True Thurst? Does it make sense for StarDiver to hit significant less than a simple full thurst? And if a lvl90DRG have to use their entire kit to get the same damage as lvl25 rotation, you'll be actively punishing the high level players.


Again, I would like to see at least one example you can give that will make sense both from gameplay logic pov, and also mathematically. Not just arbitrary wishful thinking.

[Amenara]

...

I am pretty sure this is the reason why WoW figured out how to make mob levels adjust to your own level instead of having your damage sync to the dungeon's level. It's obviously not perfect and not without its own problems but it sorta fixes the issues with losing every ability when you are randomly queued into Satasha or something. Honestly I think the only way to "help" with the problem is to have more complete kits at lower levels vs trying to balance having your entire kit at level cap sync down to lower levels.

[Deveryn]

I am pretty sure this is the reason why WoW figured out how to make mob levels adjust to your own level instead of having your damage sync to the dungeon's level. It's obviously not perfect and not without its own problems but it sorta fixes the issues with losing every ability when you are randomly queued into Satasha or something. Honestly I think the only way to "help" with the problem is to have more complete kits at lower levels vs trying to balance having your entire kit at level cap sync down to lower levels.

Is it really that widespread of a "problem" though? We've been doing this for how many years now? It's not perfect, but it's not really hurting the ability to complete the content. I get wanting to have more of your kit. I miss bits and pieces at times, but I don't think it's worth sacrificing time that could be spent on other legit improvements.

[Amenara]

Is it really that widespread of a "problem" though? We've been doing this for how many years now? It's not perfect, but it's not really hurting the ability to complete the content. I get wanting to have more of your kit. I miss bits and pieces at times, but I don't think it's worth sacrificing time that could be spent on other legit improvements.

Like I said, my problem is with how little of your kit you get from 1-60. I think the amount of effort to gameplay improvement would be well spent in redoing the level you earn skills, maybe in a weaker form that you can upgrade through traits. Balancing level 90 kits to Satasha isn't something I really care about as it only affects the level 90 player for the 10-15 minutes it takes to do the dungeon, but if you can make it so the level 15 player has a much better experience for the hours spent leveling at lower levels I think that is a worthwhile effort.

[Deveryn]

Like I said, my problem is with how little of your kit you get from 1-60. I think the amount of effort to gameplay improvement would be well spent in redoing the level you earn skills, maybe in a weaker form that you can upgrade through traits. Balancing level 90 kits to Satasha isn't something I really care about as it only affects the level 90 player for the 10-15 minutes it takes to do the dungeon, but if you can make it so the level 15 player has a much better experience for the hours spent leveling at lower levels I think that is a worthwhile effort.

They don't even spend that much time in there. Between MSQ and how much XP those dungeons give (2 or 3 levels), players only need to go there once and they move on to the next.

[Amenara]

They don't even spend that much time in there. Between MSQ and how much XP those dungeons give (2 or 3 levels), players only need to go there once and they move on to the next.

The dungeons aren't the problem, the lack of skills from 1-60 is and the level you learn those skills is. That is my point about the whole thing. You reorganize when you learn skills, you fix the problem with having none of your kit when syncing in dungeons.