Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Saraide]

I think kicking and deporting people from the party if they are objectively not playing up to the requirement to pass the duty, or if their performance doesn't meet the ascribed reason for the party forming in the first place (e.g., parsing or farm parties) - Then this is OK, I don't think it is inherently toxic to do so.

"You did xxxx dps I want uyyyy dps"

"You did xxx dps, but my values are ( insert ridiculous figure ) so you didnt do enough"

And,....the oldie but a gooidie

" You won the roll but I dont think you did enough dps so Im giving iut to this person ( insert name of buddy or friend or girlfriend"

DPS meters have what I call a cascade effect, you do xx dps they say they want y dps..you do that and they want more..and more and more until it becomes a sick joke. People become fixated on "performance metrics" and "throughput" and key performance" and "acceptable dps vs arbitrary figure they pull out of their rear"

Thats not a game

Thats a job.

No.

Damn that's crazy, if only you could host your own groups that dont do silly things. Together with all the other normal gamers that also dont want to do silly things and instead just chill and have fun.

Obviously this is very tongue in cheek but if a group is forming with a specific set of expectations and you dont meet those expectations then you have no place in that group. You cant force a static to include you.

I find this doomsaying very weird because if we assume most people dont treat the game like a job in terms of performance metrics right now but at the same time claim that open parsing would mean this enormous increase in toxic parsing then we have to realize that the evil elistists arent nearly enough people to cause that. Instead we have to assume that this huge increase has to mainly come from casual players.
Which again leads me to the same conclusion I come to many times: all people can do is project.

[Bobby66]

Yes. I do. Your response is why. it can be and has been and will be abused.

So you are again proving my point.

No one is saying it will not be abused so what point exactly? Thing why are you so against this but not other things that can and have been abused and promote "toxic" behavior? This selective way the community goes about things is just ZZZ.

Still I bet you cannot say with a straight face and while telling truth that majority of your encounters in WoW were negative since if they were no way you would have played as long as you did.

Unless you are saying 1 time is too many then so be it, but if that is your standard why are not advocating to remove other elements of the game. Parsing seems to be expectation where blame is placed on the tool instead of the player. Why is that?

End of the day from simple numbers POV it is disingenuous to say parsing will have increase to a point where it will negatively impact a vast majority of players. You are simply advocating the barring of a tool to protect the minority.

Also say if it was magically added what is stopping you from not using or requiring them in your own groups?

He'll even a simple break down after a dungeon would be neat

[VelKallor]

No one is saying it will not be abused so what point exactly

So why put a feature into a game that you know will be abused?

Still I bet you cannot say with a straight face and while telling truth that majority of your encounters in WoW were negative since if they were no way you would have played as long as you did.

Over eight years? More than I can count.

[Zebraoracle]

So why put a feature into a game that you know will be abused?


Over eight years? More than I can count.

Why put any feature into the game that we know will be abused? Oh right, because of the gameplay benefits.

I seriously, HIGHLY doubt those supposedly "more than you can count" runs outnumber the good runs you've had, nor come anywhere close and you're probably just remembering the bad runs because bad things tend to stick out in our minds more often. And anecdotal evidence is useless, I can honestly say my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. I'll admit there MIGHT have been one or two dungeons where someone pulled that crap, but the vastly overwhelming majority of my dungeons have at worst been completely silent, and I've run a metric crapton of dungeons. Why should we value one anecdotal, unprovable evidence over another? (we shouldn't)

Some of the concern I've been seeing in these posts is people will be able to more easily harass others or exclude people from parties. A few problems with that:
People can't suddenly break TOS, like... you start getting harassed in a dungeon over your DPS, that's an easy report that'll hopefully get that idiot removed from the game. Win. However, I'm willing to bet that given how people in dungeons barely talk as it is (often for fear of being reported for harassment...), any amount of abuse of a damage meter will be on the extremely low side. People are insanely adverse to vote kicking problem party members already, it's gonna be a hard sell for me that harassment is going to increase any noticeable amount.
The TOS can be modified to account for an in game damage meter to cover bases.
Exclusions and things from PF? THAT ALREADY HAPPENS. Literally all the time. Ridiculous ilvl requirements for non-parse focused groups are quite common. People who worry about DPS capabilities enough to exclude jobs are already going to do that with ACT/FFLogs. And you know what? As dumb as it is, *that is the SE given right of the party leader*. Don't like it? TOO BAD, you're not entitled to be able to join every single group on PF. That's not harassment. Stupidity, in some cases sure, but it's not harassment. And SE can easily limit damage meters to just savage/ultimate content anyways so the potential for abuse in casual content is non-existent. I'm not sure why everyone's acting like it's an all or nothing implementation.

[LittleImp]

So, what exactly would the benefit of adding a DPS meter to casual content be? I'm having trouble envisioning it, as 99% of this games casual content does not have real DPS checks and failure is borderline impossible.

I think a DPS meter that is exclusively restricted to high-end duties ala Duty Recorder would be a much more reasonable request, though I would still personally oppose it.

I'm not sure why everyone's acting like it's an all or nothing implementation.

I think it's because the original premise of the thread mentioned commendations specifically, which would imply it would be accessible in Duty Finder content.

[Bobby66]

Yes. I do. Your response is why. it can be and has been and will be abused.

So you are again proving my point.

So why put a feature into a game that you know will be abused?



Over eight years? More than I can count.

So why have housing? Why have party finder? Why have jobs so different amounts of damage? All of these can lead to a form of abuse, exclusion, harassment etc . . .

Also the more times than you can count is a cop out answer. You know you cannot say most your encounters were negative unless you were the common factor if that is then I do better understand your position.

[Zebraoracle]

So, what exactly would the benefit of adding a DPS meter to casual content be? I'm having trouble envisioning it, as 99% of this games casual content does not have real DPS checks and failure is borderline impossible.

I think a DPS meter that is exclusively restricted to high-end duties ala Duty Recorder would be a much more reasonable request, though I would still personally oppose it.




I think it's because the original premise of the thread mentioned commendations specifically, which would imply it would be accessible in Duty Finder content.

I don't really think there'd be a significant enough benefit to dungeons, trials, and alliance raids to add them. MAYBE a case could be made for extremes? But dungeons literally do not matter as long as people are pressing their buttons and at least *trying* to play properly, and it's usually easy enough to tell if someone's not pulling their weight anyways (free cure fishing no DPS healers, DPS not using AoEs on W2W pulls, tanks not cycling mits, etc). Alliance raids are typically so chaotic that I don't know how useful the information would even be.

[VelKallor]

I note that this is one of dozens of threads that have had the same result

Nothing.

Same old arguments hashed and rehashed. It isnt happening.

Deal with it.

[Bobby66]

I note that this is one of dozens of threads that have had the same result

Nothing.

Same old arguments hashed and rehashed. It isnt happening.

Deal with it.

It is a forum people are free to discuss, and even if it will not happen as stated many times it is nice to see why people feel the way they do. Though it is hard when people just say parsing is bad that is why. Lol

[Remolia]

This just in: Harassment will suddenly be allowed if damage meters were added to the game.

wot next? boss mechanics "will suddenly make Harassmet be allowed"? coz u can wipe on it?
removing a feature, coz some people cant behave is not an argument.