Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[R041]

And that there is the issue. If people just "give up" and not actually go out of their way to spread the word and constantly make noise, how in the hells are you going to expect the development team to take this issue seriously? And before you make another smart comment, yes obviously harrasment is a serious offense but if not many people talk about it, then its less likely it'll ever get the attention it deserves. There's a priority system at work here and if we dont make certain topics as top priority as folk wants to make them then yeah good luck seeing those changes happen in like...5 years from now or so at best.

These issues are still COMMONLY brought up, yet never addressed. It was even brought up multiple times by a lot of content creators in the last press conference even, yet nothing has been done and it provokes no actual discussion from Yoshi-P.

There's really no winning with you in this discussion. You will disagree in any form and any phrase. I'd suggest we move on, because I've said my piece as did you.

[strawberrycake]

SAM is fine. Healers ... sometimes cause disbands for memeing too hard.



DD are there for the xp and glams. They award current tomes. What updates do you feel they need?

I would add in up to date cosmetics, as well as unique cosmetics to DDs that would encourage players to do it more, the potsherds would serve an even bigger purpose and doing the more challenging content would reward more. Hell add in more mounts, titles, make use of our achievement system more. It can easily go a long way for both PoTD and HoH to have themed sets unique to their aesthetics. and it would be great for players lvling and players there for glam.

[Deveryn]

I would add in up to date cosmetics, as well as unique cosmetics to DDs that would encourage players to do it more, the potsherds would serve an even bigger purpose and doing the more challenging content would reward more. Hell add in more mounts, titles, make use of our achievement system more. It can easily go a long way for both PoTD and HoH to have themed sets unique to their aesthetics. and it would be great for players lvling and players there for glam.

I don't know what up-to-date cosmetics is supposed to mean. We get new content regularly and it comes with more cosmetic goods. None of that stuff is ever "outdated". Even the content stays fresh as new people keep coming through. You go to x place for the one set of glam and that's it. They added DD to the ShB relic, so that's about as much addition as they'll get.

When you say themed aesthetics, my mind goes to the glowy weapons. Are we supposed to have hot flaming armor sets in orange and white?

[strawberrycake]

I don't know what up-to-date cosmetics is supposed to mean. We get new content regularly and it comes with more cosmetic goods. None of that stuff is ever "outdated". Even the content stays fresh as new people keep coming through. You go to x place for the one set of glam and that's it. They added DD to the ShB relic, so that's about as much addition as they'll get.

When you say themed aesthetics, my mind goes to the glowy weapons. Are we supposed to have hot flaming armor sets in orange and white?

SO my idea is essentially taking the theme of PoTD into mind, Tactics Orge, they can make more sets based around that, other MMOs do it all the time, and it can go a long way. HoH is shinto themed(?) make gear mounts and titles based around that, update it with new designs every so often. adding non retention based reasons to do old content is a good thing imo. And this is a way to do it, and cater to something players like, glam.

[Shurrikhan]

Designing alternate paths wouldnt really solve the job homogeny because every mob encounter is literally dealt with the same role comp.

I didn't say it would solve job homogeneity. But if you have content homogeneity w/o job homogeneity, you're going to have 1-5 jobs outperforming the rest and becoming go-to picks not just sometimes... but nearly all the time. And if you have both content and job homogeneity, imbalances are that much more sensitive to changes, since the jobs generally less favorable for underperforming in raw throughput over time, etc., can neither possess nor utilize any redeeming features.

No, content diversity won't solve job homogeneity. Content diversity merely reduces the likelihood of job design excusing itself deeper and deeper towards homogeneity because it offers new and different levers for diversity in job design to pull differently.

The problem then, though, becomes that without truly stellar design and/or many iterations of polish so that nearly every job can offer to a fight advantages that are distinct but roughly equal in value, you end up then with go-to picks on a fight-by-fight basis. While more diverting and offering objectively more to experience within the game, that can also be more annoying, given the time the game milks from (or to be a) multileveler(s).

You can still get a greater sum of diversity and parity in the meantime, though, by just making it so a given instance isn't as likely to pedestal or dumpster a given job by offering more choices by which that instance can be run, as per R041's example of multiple paths. That's something specific to dungeons, while the likes of trials and raids would need more sophisticated solutions, but we were discussing dungeons, after all.

Tl;dr:
If you want jobs not to play the same, there needs to be a playground in which for them to play differently. There's only so much distinction one can get out of {Pull All Trash and Just AoE it Down x2, Bossx1, Repeat}. Job diversity and content diversity pretty much have to be taken as a leap together.

[Raven2014]

The problem with XIV is that it acts as an Antithesis to everything WoW is in many ways. To many Ex WoW players and many who didn't like it for (insert reason here) this is fine and great.

...

Edit : I also find it annoying af that we can't ever have good faith dicussions about XIV and its issues without people just saying take a break or saying how much better then wow it is. I just want both games to be better and the devs of both games to repsect its players time and money.

Your first paragraph make it sound like you understand the problem, then you add that last paragraph and it turned out you don't.

To draw a parallel, think about FF14 is like a casual static while WoW is more like a hardcore static. People like you are like a hardcore player but for some reason decide to join a casual static, then proceed to complain that:

- The group isn't skilled enough.
- The group doesn't commit enough time.
- Member should study, research, and improve their play out of raid time.

Like, in a vacuum without context, all of your complains may sound valid and have good merit. Like if you just talk to random person, sure that all sound reasonable. But the in context here is that people choose to be in a casual for their own reason. It's not their fault that a casual static does not live up to your hardcore expectation when you choose to join their static. Like I said, if FF14 is like WoW, I wouldn't have been here as long as I did.


How is it acting in bad faith when we simply repeat exactly what the game makers already said. Yoshi-P had said that this is the ga,e overall designing philosophy in non-uncertain term, he did not try to sugar coat or obscured it like normal PR does. You bought a product that on the label had told you it will not do what you want it to do then complain why it's not doing what you want it to do.

- If there is a person not acting in good faith here, it is you.

- If there are people who should get annoyed here, that person is not you.

[Deveryn]

SO my idea is essentially taking the theme of PoTD into mind, Tactics Orge, they can make more sets based around that, other MMOs do it all the time, and it can go a long way. HoH is shinto themed(?) make gear mounts and titles based around that, update it with new designs every so often. adding non retention based reasons to do old content is a good thing imo. And this is a way to do it, and cater to something players like, glam.

The trouble with that is they already have their hands full making new armor for so many other pieces of content. They don't have the time to double back for stuff like this. (Adding weapons for new jobs is the exception.) It's also very redundant. They gave us lots of asian themes in stormblood and we have tactics ogre themed gear. They recently a screenshot contest for it.

Just because other MMOs do something doesn't mean it will actually do anything here (and without any kind of example, I'm just going to dismiss this and move on.) People mainly run DD for the experience of that style of content.

I also feel like adding more rewards to previous content like that is a bad move because people will feel forced into running it again. It's one thing when it's an option for relic progression, but it's another when you think you were done running a duty like that many times over for all the original rewards. I'm slowly building up enough to get all the accessories I want from these two spots. I don't want to be forced to do more after that's all done.

[R041]

The trouble with that is they already have their hands full making new armor for so many other pieces of content. They don't have the time to double back for stuff like this. (Adding weapons for new jobs is the exception.) It's also very redundant. They gave us lots of asian themes in stormblood and we have tactics ogre themed gear. They recently a screenshot contest for it.

Just because other MMOs do something doesn't mean it will actually do anything here (and without any kind of example, I'm just going to dismiss this and move on.) People mainly run DD for the experience of that style of content.

Oh shit bro, you been in the headquarters? What they say, and what's Yoshi-P smell like?

[VelKallor]

It's very apparent that you so badly want XIV to succeed and be better in every aspect that you believe WoW failed in. This all reads like someone left WoW, then watched the XIV NoClip Documentary and formed their fanfic based on that.

Wrong.

I have been in gaming for decades, as I had a slew of other MUCH more pressing issues to deal with ( a very sick wife needing constant care ) I wasnt able to play back then..but I watched the entire 1.0 - 2.0 saga enfold over many months.

I didnt NEED to watch the Noclip doco, I already KNEW what had happened and why.

There was no "fanfic", the shutdown and relaunch of FF 14 was headline news in the gaming world worldwide. I remember it because at the time I was a member of four gaming websites and the discussion was raging on how much of a horrific gamble this could have turned out to be..many believed that this one couldnt be pulled out of the fire.

You dont want to know how bad the aftermath would have been had 2.0 fallen over.

Every single class gutted

Oh this is the constant whine about one ability, Kaiten. Gutted? Dont be absurd.

XIV is not in a good spot after all of the culling, and we should be criticizing that - We're not HATING, but we need to actually stop and talk about what's going on instead of ignoring it all.

Thats your opinion, one that is NOT shared by all.

But you can't say SE doesn't chainsaw stuff while also praising them for chainsawing stuff in a good way

1.0 was an unmitigated disaster. True or false.

Doesn't matter if 1.0 was bad. we can't do it content today.

Ohhhhh you want 1.0 Classic.

"Nightmare"

or add them as a friend

They cant and you know it..the other person has to accept that friend request. Remember?

[R041]

Oh this is the constant whine about one ability, Kaiten. Gutted? Dont be absurd.

I said every. single. class. Which is a fact, they have all been butchered every expac since Heavensward.

This is from a dishonest perspective, it's clear you're a new player into XIV and have a skewed perception of what's going on. Next you're gonna tell me to go play POTD just like all the other new players.

Your opinions no longer matter to me if that's all you think was gutted, unless you're just trolling me. This has to be a troll right?

No I didn't like a lot about 1.0, but that wasn't the point in our discussion. It was you saying SE don't chainsaw things, which they do.