Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Deveryn]

I'm more referring to combat / job changes, such as that of Kaiten's removal, or why they couldn't simply make button consolidation conditional instead of bouncing back and forth between the likes of High Jump<->Mirage Dive.

Conveying the scale/scope of new content is, kind of notoriously, different.

I know what you're referring to. They've actually gotten better at least explaining things after the fact. Job guides now feature more transparency regarding changes.

High Jump went back to the way it was because of a lot of feedback.

[Magikazam]

Thats like saying the story of the Titanic is the ship sank. Seriously........?



What you have is a mish mash of disconnected, fragmented, retconned and recycled bits and pieces that resemble a story the way a broken down Model T Ford resembles a Ferrari.

Every expac has been carved, sliced, diced, folded, spindled, mutilated, deleted, rewritten or outright removed, combined with ad hoc additions that are more like trying to put a shattered mirror back together wiih masking tape.

Every expac has been subjected to a mass pruning, deleted content at all levels up and including their last expac where they carved out entire questlines IN THE FIRST FEW WEEKS of the expansion.

MoP had a huge, sweeping story, all thats left is the Cliffs Notes version, ALL the content for the entire legendary cloak questline has been literally obliterated, as well as a load of content for each zone, also wiped out overnight.

Gone, as if it had never been.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...emoved-content

Here is just ONE example from a second list

https://www.wowhead.com/forums/topic...taclysm-169564



and here



Remember Teldrassill? War of Thorns?

Gone. All of it.



Case closed.

We gonna act like FFXIV didn't retcon 1.0 then half assed some story stuff in Bahamut raid to make it like it connected with 2.0?

We gonna act like no other game ever had deleted or pruned content? Like WoW has a bunch, but WoD aside it ain't that bad.

You really gonna stand here and act like the legendary cloak quest was 90% of the storyline of MoP? That like saying that removing levle 50 relic weapons is removing half of ARR story, that just false.

Yea Cataclysm did remove lots of content...That they replaced with new ones and that made the world more believable in some case, it legit the same things that 2.0 did to 1.0. Both havethe issues that you miss some reference and context if you didn't play the old version too.

Sceptre of the Shifting Sand was an event quest. It was designed to be a one time special thing, and it the reason why the quest is so beloved. In fact you should blame them for not making more similar quest.

[Magikazam]

I know what you're referring to. They've actually gotten better at least explaining things after the fact. Job guides now feature more transparency regarding changes.

High Jump went back to the way it was because of a lot of feedback.

Glad they ignore SAM and Healer who complain since 6.1 and 6.0 then.

[Thaciscokidd]

Really? Please show me where SE removed questlines the size of the WoW legendary ring and cloak.

Ill wait.



If you havent worked out by now WHY 1.0 needed to be redone, I cant help you.

The best in game event of XiV is in 1.0. The lead up to and the Fall of Dalamud was probably the best in game event that not a lot of people were around to see. The moon getting bigger and bigger til it encompassed a majority of the sky box and effected the weather was awesome. The cult that it brought up and the monsters showing up in town was an event that I wish more people were around to see. That duty during the rising a couple of years back showed some of the fun but it wasn't the real deal.

A lot of the time we don't get all of certain year's holiday events since they change just about every year elaborated on by the fact that most of the previous years rewards go to the mog shop so they don't disappear.

We can't just hold out breath and say that this won't happen here. Its just a matter of time as the game ages and they want to streamlining past expansion stuff to get people to current as soon as physically possible. For example Shadowbringers streamlining of ARR did get rid of a lot of those old fetch quest but it had a side casualty of getting rid of the Scattered Scions quest.

[VelKallor]

We gonna act like FFXIV didn't retcon 1.0 then half assed some story stuff in Bahamut raid to make it like it connected with 2.0?

Everyone and the drovers dog knows why 1.0 was a complete disaster.

We all know and acknowledge that 1.0 to 2.0 was a HUGE gamble that paid off. Had it not, SE might never have recovered. 2.0 WAS NECESSARY to save the game as whole..or are you of the delusion that it was sustainable?

It wasnt. 1.0 was broken beyond repair. Dont try and pretend otherwise.

We gonna act like no other game ever had deleted or pruned content? Like WoW has a bunch, but WoD aside it ain't that bad.

That list says otherwise.

You really gonna stand here and act like the legendary cloak quest was 90% of the storyline of MoP? That like saying that removing levle 50 relic weapons is removing half of ARR story, that just false.

It was a huge swathe of content that literally evaporated forever. And the legendary ring in WOD, and the Old Seer, and a huge list of other content that was just wiped from existence because FOMO.

Yea Cataclysm did remove lots of content...That they replaced with new ones and that made the world more believable in some case, it legit the same things that 2.0 did to 1.0. Both havethe issues that you miss some reference and context if you didn't play the old version too.

There is no comparison between WoW's Cata and FF 14 2.0.

Cata fixed what wasnt broken, and created a huge list of other problems. Camp Taurajo ring a bell?

Lastly dont talk to me about ARR, I did it pre and post changes, quite frankly the game is better. The feast questline?

UGH.

[VelKallor]

Oh btw thanks for proving my point

That like saying that removing levle 50 relic weapons is removing half of ARR story,

You can still DO them, cant you? Content is still there. Pity the same cant be said for the cloak and the ring....

Of course theres the debacle with Ordos, when after removing all of the cloak quests, they then said repeatedly you could do Ordos w/o the cloak, the patch dropped, people kept getting ported out and then Blizzard said "Oh we wanted the cloak to be a special item so too bad so sad you werent there and you cant get it now sucks be to you"

FOMO again.

The fact they said they would do this before the patch on Twitter, on the forums, everywhere, and THEN told people they had "changed their minds" AFTER the patch dropped...? Was NOT received well. It undermined players trust which already was on the skids....

One comment I have never forgotten.

"Thats what you get for taking the devs at their word" I will leave you to consider the ramifications of that statement.

Ordos, a world boss, is now locked behind a cloak that can never be obtained because all the content to get said cloak has been deleted..for no other reason than Blizzards obsession with "get it now or lose it forever"..a mentality that is slowly driving players away.

[strawberrycake]

All this stuff.

You can say all of this and blizzard has done all of these bad things yes. But that doesn't mean XIV is without fault and people can dislike many things about how 14 runs just like you dislike how many things about WoW is ran. You sound like you were particularly burned by WoW and now want to see it burn, and now are ignoring many of XIVs flaws to say WoW is bad to make yourself feel better.

For XIV lets talk about how they have forgetten systems like Deep dungeons[I know they are adding a new one, but they could have easily kept the old ones updated with rewards], how Diadem is only ever useful and playable once and then useless again, only to need to be reworked and end up back in that cycle.

Let's talk about how the content is so focused on catch up for players who don't even get the gear that relevent content is made moot within a few week to a few months. Let's talk about how they havn't fixed the ilvl cheese for Crystal Tower, How they have let trolls mas-reporting made entire servers refuse to talk in game, or make people not wanna teach how to play better in runs anymore, how their devs have openly admited to being scared of feed back and change, how their conservative response to everything is no longer an issue within just NA but lately Japan as well. And these are but a few issues.

No one is saying WoW is better or perfect, No one is saying XIV is out right bad. But what you're doing is making it harder for us to discuss issues that are present that could make this game better, and for someone like you, better then WoW. It's more then obvious that with 16s development, and with how large this game has grown they were not prepared for this, and they still have not risen to the challenge. This much more Conservative approach is just as bad as FOMO, because nothing is worth while.

In my opinion, making everything so (not a big deal) is just as bad as FOMO, because its a one and done, and later players will have a hard time doing it. And this isn;t the first MMO to meet WoW FOMO with making content that isn't important to do. because now I see a lot of older content people dislike doing or won't do. And Yes there is the nice PF people on Occasion, or the great FC people will join and then leave in a few months, But the content should just be doable baseline.

So TL;DR?

WoW is bad, and has done bad things And XIV is bad and has done bad things are shit takes.

It should be, MMOs are Iterative and sometimes Devs like to be know it alls and not listen, and then make bad products. Not one game in this entire industry, has survived not listening to it's players, XIV won;t WoW leanred what happens when they don't, and we need to stop circle jerking about XIV being *Better* and focus on talking about all flaws in good faith and give resonable feed back to fix things. Or this could be a discussion about XIV in another MMOs forums in a few years, about all the things it did wrong and why it's bad now.

Edit: Also the you seemed burned by WoW bit. I didn't mean that in a mean or sarcastic way. It's very much ok to feel burned by a game you seem to have invested a lot into. Let's normalize that to, people feeling burned by games they invested into. Because it can and has happened with XIV just like it's happned with WoW.

[Moonsprite]

OP, the relics will become more involved in subsequent 6.x5 patches. I believe the new patch 6.3 will be in January. There is a live letter coming up on Dec 23. They “should” highlight some of the relic content. In the past relics have been very mmorpg grindy. It’s too bad you didn’t see Eureka when it was new. That’s old school mmorpg grind, but many didn’t care for it. I liked it though. I think there are still people running through eureka now. The relic start of ShB had a 1000 poetic to it and then we got Bozja and Zadnor , so I think that’s the 1500 starter for this expansion.

The criterion dungeons are supposed to be continuous. I don’t remember if they said every other patch or every patch for them. If you haven’t tried it, there are both group and solo options. There are many different paths you can take in it. I feel like there should have been more rewards for it. Most people were done getting the rewards a few weeks after they came out. If you haven’t done the level 60 HW raids yet, they are required for the Tataru side quests in EW. Those quests could be necessary to unlock trials later. The Moogle event is live as of yesterday which usually means the new major content patch is coming in about a month. If you haven’t gotten your pvp series done yet, now is a great time. Lots of people will be running frontlines for moogle tomes.

Edit: I actually played the WoW Dragonflight beta. It’s way better than the last two expansions. It’s very alt friendly. I enjoyed the new story, quests, and dungeons. The new craft system is fun, but definitely grindy. A little irritating for alchemists. There are world events for gear starting this week. The new season begins today. Mythic+ trash is a little overturned imo, but will probably be fixed soon. If you feel you need a break from FFXIV for a bit, DF is actually fun. Once you unlock renown(reputation) with major factions it unlocks account wide for all alts, except for profession recipes. Dragonriding unlocks early on so you can fly. The dragon glyphs are like aethercurrents. You pick them up and they accrue like talents you spec. If you fly around you can collect all of them in an hour or so and it makes things so much easier.

[R041]

...

It's very apparent that you so badly want XIV to succeed and be better in every aspect that you believe WoW failed in. This all reads like someone left WoW, then watched the XIV NoClip Documentary and formed their fanfic based on that.

Yes we're all AWARE of what happened, I was there too, I have the stupid 1.0 Collector's Edition to mock me for it. But you can't say SE doesn't chainsaw stuff while also praising them for chainsawing stuff in a good way. Because at that point it just makes your arguments seem dishonest and flip-floppy to fill the narrative of XIV good, WoW bad. (I personally enjoyed the old Gathering system)

XIV is not in a good spot after all of the culling, and we should be criticizing that - We're not HATING, but we need to actually stop and talk about what's going on instead of ignoring it all.

The absolute worst offense I think XIV has done is compartmentalize every aspect of the game to force playstyles in certain directions instead of embracing the world they've created. They've effectively turned every system into hallways just like our dungeons are now, and they refuse to iterate on systems they create. Their dev cycle is to create, forget, and never discuss.

We've been slowly bleeding combat mechanics every expac, and while I agree that our major fights as a whole have gotten better, our core mechanics have been culled and gotten worse since Stormblood. Every single class gutted, some completely butchered, and I wear this Soul Crystal as a memory of old systems that they've destroyed but still put on display.

There are a LOT of little things that just add up over the years, things we thought were annoying were actually pretty engaging and offered more player to player interaction. For every bad mechanic removed, we've also lost some good ones. There's no reason for us to even TALK in dungeons anymore because it's too streamlined.

Saying I can still do all of the old content and story FF has to offer is like telling me I can still pet my dog after I've taxidermied the poor thing. So like technically sure? But gross, not even remotely the same as before.

[Deveryn]

Glad they ignore SAM and Healer who complain since 6.1 and 6.0 then.

SAM is fine. Healers ... sometimes cause disbands for memeing too hard.

For XIV lets talk about how they have forgetten systems like Deep dungeons[I know they are adding a new one, but they could have easily kept the old ones updated with rewards]

DD are there for the xp and glams. They award current tomes. What updates do you feel they need?