Why is everyone anxious about a PLD Rework?

[Rithy255]

Reply to Roe:
Lets say you have two tanks, a Gunbreaker and a Warrior, Gunbreaker uses Nebula on self, Rampart, Camouflage on self, they then use HOC on the warrior, The Warrior does the same they use Thrill, Rampart, Vengence, they use Flash on the Gunbreaker both would survive.

But In the case for Paladin, instead of GNB (imagine they're at 50 oath) they use Sentinel, Rampart and then they use intervention on the warrior. they would also receive warriors flash, The only thing the PLD is "lacking" in terms of mitigation would be the 10% GNB gets for sinking Camouflage, I'm not a numbers expect but most cases I'd be pretty sure the PLD would survive, the situations where gunbreaker would survive right? Maybe not in DSR? if I knew the exact numbers of the duel tank busters it would likely be easier to work out.

The case is that yes it's better to use Shelltron/intervention together if you need to kitchen sink it then yes PLD will have to wait and be restricted on that front, but in general PLD's more free to use their cooldowns then any other tank because of having two charges, Not actually defending PLD defensively here but I just do not understand how PLD would feel more restrictive in using short CD's then any other tank would.

Reply To G Serpent:
Again making Shelltron 25 seconds (1 charge I assume?), Nerfs it as it fills up every 21 seconds of auto attacks from what I tested, I actually think Oath gauge should get adjusted, Shouldn't be based off autos (such as a timer or something, maybe also using mitigation at the right time would fill it faster). Holy shelltron needs to be generally just a normal mitigation (Not a block), it needs to be able to target players (with something like a 1 Second cd, so you could double target), This would remove Intervention similar to how GNB/DRK's short cds can target each other.

Keep in mind intervention works like a normal cd and has no ties to blocks so PLD could just use it on their cotank and get their cotanks cd (also not a perfect solution, again Blocks need to be rethinked or looked at).

I actually don't think they tested PLD, they would have reworked it sooner for not being like every other job... likely only noticed it when they had to keep on buffing it.

[Kemeko]

Back when all tanks had 2 tank stances, PLD could switch to Shield Oath and gain oath gauge through spells. 5 Holy Spirits gave you 100 gauge, so at a rate of 10 gauge per 1000 mp usage. If they brought this back, it would solve the lack of personal mitigation, more or less. Personally, I'd rather see Cover as a toggle for fun, because no double tank buster will ever see it used. On a tangent, swapping clemency to ogcd would mean that you can't proc Divine Veil at lower levels without reworking it. If they want to have Divine Veil tied to gcd heals, make Divine Veil a healing version of Requiescat, 50% bonus heals, instant spell cast, no mp cost for heals, maybe give divine stacks when using Clemency that doubles holy spell potencies so it's less of a dps loss and add those stacks to Atonement so Requiescat becomes a better burst. Block used to reach 32% damage reduction as well, but it's been reduced to 20%, so swapping Sheltron "block" to 20% mitigation would make it stronger because then you can get a chance to either block or parry on top of the base 20%.

[Gserpent]

That's actually a cool design for Divine Veil. But it's just going to be turned into Shake It Off. It's already been trending that direction. Two tanks give a flat 10% mit, the other two give a group shield. "5.0 design," wew!

[dwodmots]

I just like current PLD. Maybe add another zero or two to Confiteor's potency to get the really fat crits.

[Marxam]

I know, but they don't *need* to. Because their short cooldown skill actually works as designed, whereas the developers inexplicably managed to not notice blocking not applying to dots? For all Yoshida's claims of "they got too good at P8S," it makes me wonder if anyone on the team was actually *playing* Paladin with crafted ilvl gear...

And, by the way, there's an easy way to fix "well if they made Sheltron stop sucking and also made it cost no gauge, it would be OP" - just make Intervention and Sheltron share a 25 sec cooldown. You'd still be able to dump gauge on Clemency, which is in line with Aurora, Oblation, etc.

If they wanted to buff sheltron they could just make oath gauge work the same way as beast gauge for combo enders. WAR gets to FC every 15 secs just by doing one SE and SP combo. If goring and RA worked the same way that's a sheltron every 15 secs, effectively putting it on the same recast as TBN. This is also assuming Atonement survives as the devs have shown that they will remove a skill if it just bloats a rotation i.e. SAM.

[Curisu]

I just like current PLD. Maybe add another zero or two to Confiteor's potency to get the really fat crits.

That is the change I 100% don't want.
I dont want to fully rely on crits on a single GCD.

It will frustrate me when that thing is not critting or when it does crit often but we have a wipe due to some stupid mistake.

It is not a fun gameplay experience for me to be rewarded for having random luck.
I want to be rewarded for playing the job well and flawlessly and that every pull equally.

When you want to see these big crits then play GNB.

[Gserpent]

If they wanted to buff sheltron they could just make oath gauge work the same way as beast gauge for combo enders. WAR gets to FC every 15 secs just by doing one SE and SP combo. If goring and RA worked the same way that's a sheltron every 15 secs, effectively putting it on the same recast as TBN. This is also assuming Atonement survives as the devs have shown that they will remove a skill if it just bloats a rotation i.e. SAM.

I mean, we're all fairly certain that PLD will just be "WAR with a shield", so this doesn't seem unlikely to happen.

[Rithy255]

I mean, we're all fairly certain that PLD will just be "WAR with a shield", so this doesn't seem unlikely to happen.

I doubt it will exactly be warrior, but it will share a lot of baseline with warrior and dark knight.
Perhaps even they might go with making it similar to gunbreaker, considering finishing your basic combo gives you atonement on PLD and Ammo (that can lead into a 3 button combo with weaving)

I don't think theirs any one way PLD will go, they will just likely remove Fight or flight and goring blade (make it like wars damage buff, like I've said before), because the problems with PLD having a second burst and DOT upkeep being hard for downtime situations, No tanks "dot" other then PLD really has to upkeep their DOT so much, GNB/DRK both have two (basically, your shadow acts as a fancy DOT on drk), but both really don't need to play around it like PLD.

Realistically it's safe to say PLD will share a lot with warrior/drk likely though, we will see really.

[ForsakenRoe]

If they wanted to buff sheltron they could just make oath gauge work the same way as beast gauge for combo enders. WAR gets to FC every 15 secs just by doing one SE and SP combo. If goring and RA worked the same way that's a sheltron every 15 secs, effectively putting it on the same recast as TBN. This is also assuming Atonement survives as the devs have shown that they will remove a skill if it just bloats a rotation i.e. SAM.

See I was trying to math out what good values there would be for each GCD like 'would it be better if RA gave 10 or 15, how should 3 Atonements compare to a 124 combo refreshing Goring', then I realised that if Sheltron had a 15s CD like that, it'd mean a 80% uptime on the Knight's Benediction regen effect, which would be hilarious

[Gserpent]

I doubt it will exactly be warrior, but it will share a lot of baseline with warrior and dark knight.
Perhaps even they might go with making it similar to gunbreaker, considering finishing your basic combo gives you atonement on PLD and Ammo (that can lead into a 3 button combo with weaving)

I don't think theirs any one way PLD will go, they will just likely remove Fight or flight and goring blade (make it like wars damage buff, like I've said before), because the problems with PLD having a second burst and DOT upkeep being hard for downtime situations, No tanks "dot" other then PLD really has to upkeep their DOT so much, GNB/DRK both have two (basically, your shadow acts as a fancy DOT on drk), but both really don't need to play around it like PLD.

Realistically it's safe to say PLD will share a lot with warrior/drk likely though, we will see really.

Charge-based 60 second unga bunga, maybe a second combo to maintain some sort of buff (Goring Blade is effectively just an always-on damage buff as long as you're hitting the target so I could see them keeping it, except for the blades combo and Goring Blade overwriting each other.) I think the only big thing is what they'll do with the Oath Gauge and abilities keyed to it. Will Atonement become our Fell Cleave?