YPYT is griefing. Tank role is not "puller" role

[Burmecia]

Tank role is not "puller" role

No, but I'd say it is "the most logical puller" or "1st choice puller" role.

In reality the dungeon is team effort. #hello_captain_obvious

No one can pull more than tank can tank through or healer can heal through or dps can murder through, simple. Any player of any role who knows what they're doing can carry, been witness to every role doing that. It's anything from super impressive to super humorous!!

I'm usually tank player of the worst sort. I don't like it when healer or dps are super duper pulling happy. I use sprint, I'm not loafind around, I want to clear dungeon fast too. So maybe it's my face, dunno. It happens almost never anyway.

Recently I have been leveling some alts through ARR as DPS. Its early game so I see both kind of tanks, newbies and wall-to-wall pulling veterans. Since I am tank main, sometimes - from muscle/visual memory - run ahead of newbie tanks without thinking like an idiot. Idiot especially, if that makes newbie healer's life uncomfortable too.
Figured that for now focus targeting the tank helps me to keep and eye on them, so i wont pull when its obviously them who wanna set the pace.

I also have been able to pinpoint my position in forever discussion about "to wall-to-wall or not". Ideal is ideal, but if the group can't do it, pull pack which has 4+ things. Can't remember each job, but I think that wes the breakpoint where all the jobs/classes start to get everything out of their spamable AOE, which is just satifying

[Gserpent]

A good rule of thumb is to pull two packs and see how it goes. A healer should not have any issues keeping you up through two packs of mobs, even with very bad DPS players. And if your DPS turn out to be competent, you can pull more on the next leg.

Dungeons have largely been 2-3 packs between walls since Heavensward, anyway...

[JoeBarbarian]

This has been an interesting read to say the least. Some points here:
1) Broadly speaking no single person/role "sets the pace"
2) Depending on level, dungeon, individual gear and individual experience are all variables
3) Personality types and Tolerance levels.

I love it when Tanks do YPYT. As a healer I'm more than happy to put the effort into keeping a DPS alive to pretend to tank until (a) we get rid of the kid or (b) the kid shuts up and gets over themselves. This thread is full of "Don't do this" "Don't do that" "This role is in charge" When in fact, no one is or even has to be outside the norm W2W pulling.

It's only when someone isn't getting their way and takes a dump in the sandpit that this subject becomes relevant. If you don't have the tolerance to deal with the pooper then either teach them a lesson by doing the dungeon without them or by kicking them. Or my personal favourite because some tanks do need a reality check when they demand stuff "Accidently" let them die and ask them "Ah sorry, was your invuln on CD?"

Edit: Just wanted to say, if your group isn't W2W pulling then suggesting it should be your first move, not "Not just the tank can pull". I've lost count how many times a new tank was just scared to try and a bit of encouragement and words of support such as (It's okay, I got you, let's give it 1 try) lead to them W2W pulling the rest of the dungeon. It's amazing what you can do when you communicate.

[dspguy]

Healer sets nothing in FF14, and that's coming from someone who mainly plays one and does dungeons daily.

Tank just goes sprinting in and pulls as much as they know they can handle or hit the wall, rest follow him and do their thing.

Tanks set the pace. If somethings goes wrong, it is normally a discussion between the tank and healer. But the tank does set the pace. Side note, I had one healer once that rescued me backwards as a "hint" to not pull more. I took that hint. We probably could have handled it and chances are, there will be a time when the healer learns how to use their healer kit more efficiently. But, I don't berate the healer. It's a tough job and this is a video game, it shouldn't be stressful.

[Gserpent]

Tanks set the pace. If somethings goes wrong, it is normally a discussion between the tank and healer. But the tank does set the pace. Side note, I had one healer once that rescued me backwards as a "hint" to not pull more. I took that hint. We probably could have handled it and chances are, there will be a time when the healer learns how to use their healer kit more efficiently. But, I don't berate the healer. It's a tough job and this is a video game, it shouldn't be stressful.

Again: you're just wrong, dude. Especially below EW levels, see how far you get without the healer keeping you alive. If you pull more than what your healer is capable of handling (maybe they're spamming Cure instead of Cure 2 because they think they need to worry about mana efficiency or something, or they're an SCH that thinks they should spam Physick and not Adlo), you will die.

That, then, pretty clearly indicates that it's the *healer* that defines the pace of the dungeon, at least in a very reductive sense. In a more practical sense, dungeons are so easy that as long as you're okay with single pulling, you don't really "need" any role. I've cleared tons of dungeons with afk/disconnected tanks, healers, DPS, etc. It slows the group down, but it doesn't stop it. Even most bosses can be done without a tank, healer, etc.

[dspguy]

Tanks set the pace.

Again: you're just wrong, dude. ... That, then, pretty clearly indicates that it's the *healer* that defines the pace of the dungeon,

Not so sure about that.

It is generally accepted that "setting the pace" means to be in front. Think pacesetter in a marathon race or a pace car. They aren't in the back or the middle. They are in the front. How many dungeons do you run where the healer is in front making all of the pulls. Clearly, I guess everyone else is playing the game wrong.

And as I said in my previous post, if something goes wrong - the tank and healer confer about it. So there is communication, when necessary.

[Magikazam]

Again: you're just wrong, dude. Especially below EW levels, see how far you get without the healer keeping you alive. If you pull more than what your healer is capable of handling (maybe they're spamming Cure instead of Cure 2 because they think they need to worry about mana efficiency or something, or they're an SCH that thinks they should spam Physick and not Adlo), you will die.

That, then, pretty clearly indicates that it's the *healer* that defines the pace of the dungeon, at least in a very reductive sense. In a more practical sense, dungeons are so easy that as long as you're okay with single pulling, you don't really "need" any role. I've cleared tons of dungeons with afk/disconnected tanks, healers, DPS, etc. It slows the group down, but it doesn't stop it. Even most bosses can be done without a tank, healer, etc.

Legit depend on the tank you get and the level of the dungeon. GNB at level 50 get so much survivability that your healer got time to dps. Warrior past a certain level don't even need anything else than a regen/fairy. Of course if the healer and dps do jackshit the tank will die. but that dosent mean they are in charge of the pace.

Generally speaking Tank will de-facto do big pull and adjust to the healer if need be.

[Jirah]

Tanks are just bored due to overall content not exactly being fun for them.

Drag mobs, spam aoe, pop a CD or two. GG

for bosses it’s basically DPS

They aren’t stimulated and boredom breeds bad behavior. Unfocused you turn to other forms of fun.

If you have a YPYT mentality I’d be glad to heal you thru it as long as you mitigate. We don’t need tanks in 4 man content. Tank busters are a joke, stack markers can easily be 3 manned and mobs of 3 can be tanked by any DPS

[Gserpent]

Not so sure about that.

It is generally accepted that "setting the pace" means to be in front. Think pacesetter in a marathon race or a pace car. They aren't in the back or the middle. They are in the front. How many dungeons do you run where the healer is in front making all of the pulls. Clearly, I guess everyone else is playing the game wrong.

And as I said in my previous post, if something goes wrong - the tank and healer confer about it. So there is communication, when necessary.

How far do racecars get without their pit crew?

[LittleImp]

Viable pace is determined by a combination of factors, though I would say the DPS and Healing are the two most important.

The tank is probably the least important factor when it comes to determining the appropriate pace, barring situations where they somehow show up to the dungeon in a cloth cowl or glamour gear.

If the tank incorrectly assesses the capabilities of their party, they should be prepared for someone else to demonstrate what those capabilities are.