Should most DPS be selfish DPS?

[Mithron]

Thing there is that creates another kind of meta, or makes that utility useless.

This is actually the kind of problem we saw a lot of in Heavensward. I was kicked out of groups more than a few times in PF, and then saw when I looked into the recruitment that after kicking me, they changed the recruitment to exclude monks from joining at all. Friend who played machinist back then had the same thing happening because bard was meta.

All non-raid DPS buffing utility is just flavor, never necessary. Role actions are different from job-specific actions. That's okay. Mantra makes healing more comfy sometimes. It's not a problem and doesn't need to be addressed.

You weren't kicked in HW because Mantra was useless, you were kicked because MNK did bad damage and ran out of TP constantly. HW balance was pretty bad in Midas especially, even worse than P8s balance. If you didn't have Brotherhood and thus could be justified in being equal damage (honestly MNK already kinda' out DPS SAM) to SAM. If all jobs did the roughly same total DPS but just had different rotations and playstyles with "flavor" utility that didn't impact raid damage, I think we'd have a lot more job variety. Yes there will always be a meta, and that's okay. You'll never fully abolish a meta, nor should you try to specifically. Just make every job as close to rDPS as you can with each other so all jobs are good, useful, and fun to play without feeling exactly the same and viable in all content.

[wereotter]

All non-raid DPS buffing utility is just flavor, never necessary. Role actions are different from job-specific actions. That's okay. Mantra makes healing more comfy sometimes. It's not a problem and doesn't need to be addressed.

You weren't kicked in HW because Mantra was useless, you were kicked because MNK did bad damage and ran out of TP constantly. HW balance was pretty bad in Midas especially,

I'm not even talking about Alexander, I was running with a static so there was no issue there. I'm referring to just trying to do mount farms, groups at the time, at least on my server, would put up PF explicitly excluding monk and machinist, and more than once, I would join a group that didn't have that restriction only to be kicked from the party and the PF relisted without monks allowed.

Also healing more comfy doesn't ultimately matter if you still have to throw out the same number of heals. Not until Mantra increases healing received to the point that it will allow healers to throw up more DPS skills will it actually be a good utility skill. For now, it's just flavor.

[Mithron]

I'm not even talking about Alexander, I was running with a static so there was no issue there. I'm referring to just trying to do mount farms, groups at the time, at least on my server, would put up PF explicitly excluding monk and machinist, and more than once, I would join a group that didn't have that restriction only to be kicked from the party and the PF relisted without monks allowed.

As a PLD main, I'm aware and dealt with the same. The community's perception of a job often matters more than the job's actual performance, and I believe a good way to solve that problem (and the problems from two minute burst meta) is make more jobs selfish DPS and balance around that instead.

Also healing more comfy doesn't ultimately matter if you still have to throw out the same number of heals. Not until Mantra increases healing received to the point that it will allow healers to throw up more DPS skills will it actually be a good utility skill. For now, it's just flavor.

Good, that's exactly all it should be. Just flavor. All mandatory mitigation and utility should come from tanks and healers only, or DPS role actions. Job specific actions should never be mandatory from DPS for defensive or healing purposes.